The Change Begins.

[we_are_toast]

Re: The Change Begins.

failing into the health care swamp and having to discuss govt funded abortions, health care for illegals, and cutbacks to medicaid and seniors to pay for the new program is a big loser (politically) - there is a reason why we don't have nationalized health care yet in the US and Obama is finding out why

I thought Obama was smarter than this

Close. Healthcare is indeed a swamp and Obama thought he learned a lesson from the Clintons. He turned the process over to the congress so as not to have a big target for the right to shoot at during the long legislative ordeal. This was the Clinton lesson. Turns out the public "sausage-making", and turning this over to Max Baucus was far worse than having a target.

Polling shows the public is not opposed to health care reform, ask anyone on Medicare, but they hate the monster that came out of the Senate. The house and Senate bills are pretty dead. I think both houses will take the most popular parts of the bills and pass them in the house and ram them through the Senate using reconciliation, including maybe a scaled back public option or expansion of Medicare. Obama needs to reconnect with his base while getting back to some populist rhetoric. The big banks have come under fire this past week, and Insurance may be next in line.

Must be some sort of vitamin deficiency that makes Dems behave that way

It has nothing to do with vitamins, I think it's genetic.

[Jay]

Re: The Change Begins.

While there is a good deal of truth in what you say, I can only hope you are not one of the hopeless f*cking morons who supported Bush/Cheney and made Obama inevitable. If so, we are all getting what you deserve. People who fall into that category should have the common decency to STFU and keep their opinions to themselves at this point.

Good luck to all of us.

It's really very simple, none of the above until someone gets it. Vote them all out every time. Clean it up or ship out. Don't vote for any incumbent unless they go beyond corruption as usual.

[flintlock]

Re: The Change Begins.

imho - its all about jobs, jobs, and more jobs -

failing into the health care swamp and having to discuss govt funded abortions, health care for illegals, and cutbacks to medicaid and seniors to pay for the new program is a big loser (politically) - there is a reason why we don't have nationalized health care yet in the US and Obama is finding out why

Exactly. There's a reason Bush wouldn't touch the issue.

[Rajiv]

Re: The Change Begins.

There was a good article by Paul Craig Roberts on this topic - How Wall Street Destroyed Health Care

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As a result of the way American medicine is being reconstructed, patients will cease to have a doctor whom they know and who knows them. Important information is lost in a system of bureaucratized “health care” in which a patient sees whatever face happens to be on duty at the corporate provider. Impersonal health care thus brings a cost of its own, and its quality can be low compared to private practice. Indeed, the U.S. is creating a “health care” system that is more costly and less efficient than single-payer national health systems. But it will enrich corporations and provide play for Wall Street.

It turns one’s stomach to watch libertarians and “free market economists” defend bureaucratized impersonal health care as “free market medicine.” There is no free market present. Corporate lobbies and campaign contributions use government power to create bureaucratized monopolies that destroy medicine for the practitioner and the patient. Wall Street pushes for greater shareholder earnings, which are achieved by denying care.

Just as independent businesses have been destroyed by corporate chains from Wal-Mart to auto parts to fast food, medicine is being destroyed by monopoly capital. The risks of starting a private business today are many times higher than they were a half century ago. Chains have turned Americans who once were independent business men and women into employees.

The fate of the health care bill demonstrates the power of private lobbies. What was to be health care for Americans was instantly transformed into 30 million new patients for the private health insurance industry. The “solution” to tens of millions of Americans being unable to afford health care is a law that requires them to purchase a private health care policy or be annually fined. As most of these uninsured Americans cannot afford to purchase a private policy, the plan is for the federal government to use taxpayers’ money to subsidize their purchase of a policy from private companies.

In other words, tax money is being diverted to the pockets of private businesses. This is par for the course in “capitalist” America.
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[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Change Begins.

There was a good article by Paul Craig Roberts on this topic - How Wall Street Destroyed Health Care

Yes, good article.

I like it's conclusion:

The lobbies of greed rule America. The White House, Congress, even the federal judiciary are impotent in the face of capitalist greed. The recent Supreme Court decision permitting corporations to use shareholders’ money in corporate treasuries to influence elections increases the control that corporations have over the outcome of elections and the decisions of the government of the United States.


There is no government of the people, for the people, by the people, only the rule of private interests.

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Change Begins.

I think those who do not want to do something about health care are literally whistling past the grave yard. The health care system will collapse faster than Wall Street did but no bailout will cover up this reality. I know good people, professional men, in their fifties and sixties who don't have health insurance because the economics of it just don't work. This is truly a debate between the haves and the have nots. When enough people realize than health insurance is now a scam and stop paying premiums the current system will collapse because of no cash flow. There will be moves to "secure" they system as they have done for housing and automobiles but this time the problems are too real and the bullshit won't fly. The Zombie Middle Class will join the Zombie Rich walking around thinking it is only a "phenomena" until they get sick. Think about it. If it wasn't for the rationalization that it was Subprime Loans (AKA the poor that shouldn't have gotten loans in the first place) that got us into this financial storm what would the message be? We should all hope that Obama can succeed on health care reform but especially the Republicans and who they represent. There will be blood on their hands and some of it will be their own.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: The Change Begins.

Reverse Racism is a Fox News, GOP, christano-fascist talking point. It gets pulled out and re-used all the time.

I also love the "corrupt inner city politics" idea, it was the poor, desperate inner city kids that do not even have books in thier school destroying America, asking for hand-outs, and pulling us wall-street guys down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5yHuJ914m4

Have you kicked in the head of a wall-street banker today? On your next trip to new york head down to a wall street pub and look for an anti-American GOP fag in a pink shirt or pink sweater around his neck and simply beat the crap out of him.

At least, it's a start and it is more American than any of those Fox / Cnn news cowards are about.

As I consider myself a committed fascist, I would like to point out that the dichotomy you present is false.

Democracy, before it descends into caesarism, always involves a plutocratic elite buying the votes of the masses with public assistance and broad based propaganda efforts. As a near life-long resident of New York City, I can assure that the folks down at the "wall street" pubs are nearly all Democrats who firmly believe in social spending, at the very least to forestall revolution. Perhaps the next time you come to the Big Bagel, I'll be inclined to take you on such a social tour myself. With respect to the mass media propaganda mechanism, its efficacy towards what is left of the American middle class is rapidly diminishing.

While I have little interest in monotheistic religions in general, Christianity is certainly the least offensive and more importantly, it is the dominant religion of the Western World - the world that has henceforth given you the level of prosperity and freedom to write such words.

The future does not belong to bread and games, it belongs to real leadership of the people. People of character, those who possess the antithesis of the cowardice you attack - that essential aspect of masculinity known as courage, are motivated not by your bitter progressive attacks but auctoritas and dignitas.

You clearly have a problem with Christianity, such that it is colors nearly every post you make. But, you will gain nothing by hurling such insults at the very people whose support you require to achieve your desired ends. Our world has become supremely decadent and depraved, and for the majority of people in the West - they see Christianity as an answer to that. Until you understand this, and formulate a reasonable alternative, you will simply be following in the footsteps of Don Q.

[Jay]

Re: The Change Begins.

As I consider myself a committed fascist, I would like to point out that the dichotomy you present is false.

That was what I suspected. Do you feel that whatever means are necessary to instill your fascist ideals are appropriate, including genocide?

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Change Begins.

My guess is that a Wall Street guy is a Democrat at the Big Bagel and Republican at the Ritz Carlton. They are innately bullshit artist and are selected by the system to perform that function. The problem with "believers" is they are always willing to "believe". Belief is only useful when facing paradoxes and/or lack of sufficient information to make a decision. That is why there is a correlation between stupidity and ignorance with "belief". Who is tilting at wind mills here? The believer in free markets or the observer of poverty?

[wayiwalk]

Re: The Change Begins.

My guess is that a Wall Street guy is a Democrat at the Big Bagel and Republican at the Ritz Carlton. They are innately bullshit artist and are selected by the system to perform that function. The problem with "believers" is they are always willing to "believe". Belief is only useful when facing paradoxes and/or lack of sufficient information to make a decision. That is why there is a correlation between stupidity and ignorance with "belief". Who is tilting at wind mills here? The believer in free markets or the observer of poverty?

You got that right.

In my neighborhood where I presently live (in New Jersey), the finance guys tend to be republican *ssholes. In the neighborhood I grew up in (on Long Island), the finance guys tend to be democrat *ssholes.

Same *sshole, different town, different party.

[Slimprofits]

Re: The Change Begins.

This must be part of the real change, right?

I just knew it would start at some point.

JANUARY 25, 2010, 7:31 P.M. ET
Obama: Bernanke Has My "Strongest Support" - ABC News

[Fiat Currency]

Re: The Change Begins.

This must be part of the real change, right?

Perhaps this person was right ...

CHANGE.jpg

[rjwjr]

Re: The Change Begins.

That was what I suspected. Do you feel that whatever means are necessary to instill your fascist ideals are appropriate, including genocide?

Isn't assuming that Serge, a self-professed fascist, believes in genocide kinda like believing that you are a talk show host because your first name is Jay?

You may disagree with fascism, but don't let it detract from Serge's point regarding Mula's anti-Christian fanaticism. Mula is off base here (per usual), not Serge.

[GRG55]

Re: The Change Begins.

It looks like the President is giving up on Geithner/Summers. Reports of Elizabeth Warren and Volcker getting more say. Again, the State of the Union could signal that Obama FINALLY gets it. But I've been here before.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...IDDLTopStories

Best line I heard yesterday..."Obama gave Wall Street a free lunch. Now he's complaining that they ate it..."

[GRG55]

Re: The Change Begins.