...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

[Mega]

Well look-e here, America's new post empire car:-
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/15...es-in-a-visit/
Mike

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Well look-e here, America's new post empire car:-
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/15...es-in-a-visit/
Mike

LOL. If I recall correctly, India was part of the British Empire.

Was.

Now Her Majesty instead of being Empress of India suffers the indignity that the Range Rovers for her Sandringham and Balmoral estates are sold to her by these same Colonials, and the Germans make her Rollers.

Besides there's no market for something that looks like this in America. Now if they ever make a pick-up truck or SUV versions...

"...A U.S. Nano would also need to be nicer inside to be attractive to buyers, Tata representatives told us. They drove the car around Judson College in Alabama recently and quickly learned that they need to bump up the comfort level in the car. Students all asked where the iPod connector was and why there weren't any cupholders..."

[shiny!]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Well look-e here, America's new post empire car:-
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/15...es-in-a-visit/
Mike

It looks like something I'd like, but its pretty low to the ground with very tiny tires. I wonder how it handles big potholes- the kind we're likely to see more and more of as cities won't have enough money for road repairs.

I'm looking for an inexpensive, fuel-efficient, SAFE car. Until then, I'll keep driving my '86 Crown Vic until the wheels fall off. It gets 20 MPG and laughs at potholes.

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Mike: Looks like Tata Motors was inspired by some of your countrymen...you know the ones that are cloistered in those expensive, publicly subsidized universities, doing useless R&D between pints at the Faculty Club...:p

A road map for greener transport

15 Jan 2010

An Oxford University study says the best way to reduce emissions in the short term is a ‘drastic downscaling of both size and weight’ of conventional petrol and diesel cars.

The research by Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment suggests that we should not rely on manufacturers producing hydrogen or battery-powered vehicles in the next decade...

[Starving Steve]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

I once had a 1968 VW beetle, semi-automatic. New, the car sold for $600. And it was terribly over-priced, even at that price, new.

One winter in Winnipeg, and the torque converter seals split and gave-out. The electrical gave-out, especially the electric gear-shift relay. The generator brushes would freeze-up, and the battery would discharge while driving. The simple car needed endless servicing, all of which was expensive, even at price-levels of the late '60s and early '70s.

To-day VW and Audi have a terrible name for reliability. The last VWs now are being produced in Mexico.... This Nano looks like another VW beetle to be foisted upon the public.

Another cheap car that was not worth one-cent was the Lada from Russia. It sold for around $600, new, in the 1970s..... The joke in Russia was that the back window of the Lada was heated to warm your hands when you pushed the car in winter.

Another joke was the Skota from Yugoslavia, also the Yugo from that country. Terrible!

The Skota had a rear-engine, so heat had to be transported forward from the engine to the passenger compartment in winter. As with the VW beetle, people froze-to-death in Canada waiting for the heat to arrive from the engine. The passengers had to chissel and chip ice off of the interior windows in winter so the driver could see to drive.

FIAT put-out their "Fix it again, Tony". Another sad story! Even in California, the car dis-integrated.

Oldsmobile launched their V-8 gas engine, factory-converted to diesel. It was another engineering disaster foisted upon the public. Around 75,000 miles on the odometre, and all such cars were sitting in the scrap yard.:rolleyes:

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

It looks like something I'd like, but its pretty low to the ground with very tiny tires. I wonder how it handles big potholes- the kind we're likely to see more and more of as cities won't have enough money for road repairs.

I'm looking for an inexpensive, fuel-efficient, SAFE car. Until then, I'll keep driving my '86 Crown Vic until the wheels fall off. It gets 20 MPG and laughs at potholes.

Frankly, if I was a bit younger I'd take one of those things, rip out the back seat, install a built-up Chevy small-block, convert it to rear-wheel drive, and go stop-light racing every Corvette I could find.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Frankly, if I was a bit younger I'd take one of those things, rip out the back seat, install a built-up Chevy small-block, convert it to rear-wheel drive, and go stop-light racing every Corvette I could find.

Wouldn't you end up with your front wheels popping right over your head, leaving you upside down and pointing backward?

The look of astonished laughter on the face of the Corvette driver would be priceless!

[hayekvindicated]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

They don't need to sell those things in North America or Europe. It has been, for a long time, my view that this is the biggest weakness Ratan Tata has had - like a lot of old aristocracy well educated Parsis, he needs the badge of approval from the West. This is why he made the horrible mistake of buying Land Rover and Jaguar at ridiculously inflated prices. Same thing - the rich Indian boy having lived a life of luxury in admiration of the West getting that excellent glowing warm feeling in his heart that he has acquired a great Western brand as part of the expansion of his empire (and not just a Western brand but British!). What folly!

There are enough people in Asia that currently drive around in scooters and mopeds who would gladly swap them for a Nano. And if Tata can convince even a small minority of such scooter and moped riders to do that, they will make a fortune.

As for size, they laughed at Toyota and Honda back in the 1950s when they first started selling in North America. In the next half a century, they proceeded to swallow half the US car market.

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

They don't need to sell those things in North America or Europe. It has been, for a long time, my view that this is the biggest weakness Ratan Tata has had - like a lot of old aristocracy well educated Parsis, he needs the badge of approval from the West. This is why he made the horrible mistake of buying Land Rover and Jaguar at ridiculously inflated prices. Same thing - the rich Indian boy having lived a life of luxury in admiration of the West getting that excellent glowing warm feeling in his heart that he has acquired a great Western brand as part of the expansion of his empire (and not just a Western brand but British!). What folly!

There are enough people in Asia that currently drive around in scooters and mopeds who would gladly swap them for a Nano. And if Tata can convince even a small minority of such scooter and moped riders to do that, they will make a fortune.

As for size, they laughed at Toyota and Honda back in the 1950s when they first started selling in North America. In the next half a century, they proceeded to swallow half the US car market.

They will sell a LOT of Nanos in the original target market...although inflation may force the price of a Nano higher than originally announced, it's going to open up a new market for entry level buyers that find the price point of a Maruti Suzuki too high:

Maruti Suzuki raises vehicle prices


Published on Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:31 | Updated at Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 18:06 | Source : Reuters

Maruti Suzuki, India's top carmaker, said on Saturday it has raised the prices of some of its models to recover the rise in input costs...

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Wouldn't you end up with your front wheels popping right over your head, leaving you upside down and pointing backward?

The look of astonished laughter on the face of the Corvette driver would be priceless!

The physics to avoid it are not that complicated. Both the engine and transmission would be located between the axles, and well forward of the rear axle [the wheels are right at the corners of the car you'll notice, so virtually the entire mass of the vehicle and its contents are ahead of the rear axle, unlike say a Porche where much of the engine weight is behind the rear transaxle, which creates all manner of high polar moment of inertia problems]. The issue is similar for any high performance mid-engined car. I think the two biggest problems to solve will be cooling air inlet and outlets for the mid-ship engine radiator and figuring out the physical arrangement of the transmission shifting [it might be easier to use an electronically controlled automatic, instead of trying to engineer a manual linkage].

Years ago in my silly youth I helped stuff a Ford 302 into a friend's Pinto. The car was a rusted hulk, patched with Bondo and painted primer gray. A total death trap, but hey, when you're young you're immortal, right .

We couldn't hide the air cleaner under the hood [so we cut a hole in it], and funnily enough that seemed to provoke all manner of unsuspecting Camaro, 'Vette and Mustang jockies. They would always start laughing when they saw the car...but not for long. He lost very few races against those boyz. He retired the car once word got out about it and nobody would take him on - the car wasn't that useful for anything else. I'd probably rivet up some fender flares for the Nano to try to accomplish the same thing...:p

[KGW]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Are you talking about the AUDI that is at the top of the car manufacturing heap? The one that won Le Mans with its diesel technology? The one that all other car manufacturers are trying to imitate?

[GRG55]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

Are you talking about the AUDI that is at the top of the car manufacturing heap? The one that won Le Mans with its diesel technology? The one that all other car manufacturers are trying to imitate?

I think he's talking about the Audi's they made back in the late-'70s and 1980s, like the Audi Fox [known as the Audi 80 outside North America]. Back then Audi's were, unfortunately, a rather "brittle" car that had great difficulty dealing with the extremes of western Canadian conditions, particularly in winter. Stuff just broke on those cars all the time. Today's Audis are a different matter entirely as I understand.

[cmalbatros]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

One wheel better than a Reliant "Robin" ? (60MPg). I had a friend in UK that hit a Ford Sierra with the front corner of his one and damaged it so much it was an insurance write off - he duct taped his corner back on and drove off into the sunset. Skoda was a Rally car race class champion for many years and I read somewhere that Porsche got the design for their rear suspension from them too.

[serge_oc]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

I predict that 3 years from now, Americans will LOVE TATA.

Not because it's cool but because it's cheap.

Quality does not matter if you're out of money and out of credit, and that is where American 'monthly payment' consumer is heading towards.

I also predict a few bells and whistles will be added to it to overcome the gagging effect, but you will see, Americans will GRIN AND BEAR IT.

[Starving Steve]

Re: ...........and you thought the Mustang II & Pinto where bad!

I think he's talking about the Audi's they made back in the late-'70s and 1980s, like the Audi Fox [known as the Audi 80 outside North America]. Back then Audi's were, unfortunately, a rather "brittle" car that had great difficulty dealing with the extremes of western Canadian conditions, particularly in winter. Stuff just broke on those cars all the time. Today's Audis are a different matter entirely as I understand.

Quoting from Consumer Guide, Automotive, for the 2002-2008 Audi A-4 automobiles:

"Likely repair costs: air-conditioning compressor $890, alternator $475, automatic-transmission or trans-axle $2195, brakes $945, clutch-plate bearing $760, CV joints $5325, exhaust $925, shocks/struts $3600, timing-chain or belt $665."

These are the "likely repair costs" before the car gets really old.

What more can I say? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

And remember: these are the average U.S. costs. Think about what a Winnipeg winter could do to your Audi's reliability issues!