We've been diagnosed...

[oddlots]

... our problem is apparently that we're jealous:

Wall Street Thinks You Are a Jealous Little Malcontent


The recurrent theme on Bloomberg television today, from the guests that are brought on and questioned by the news anchors, is that the public wants to limit the bonuses paid by Wall Street because they are just jealous.

Yes. That's the long and short of it. You are just a jealous little malcontent who envies their great success, much like some malcontent who attacks the West because they envy their freedom. In some ways you are a terrorist too, if you do not just hand over your money and let the bankers distribute it as they wish. Better shape up quick.

from Jessie.

[cindykimlisa]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

... our problem is apparently that we're jealous:

Wall Street Thinks You Are a Jealous Little Malcontent


The recurrent theme on Bloomberg television today, from the guests that are brought on and questioned by the news anchors, is that the public wants to limit the bonuses paid by Wall Street because they are just jealous.

Yes. That's the long and short of it. You are just a jealous little malcontent who envies their great success, much like some malcontent who attacks the West because they envy their freedom. In some ways you are a terrorist too, if you do not just hand over your money and let the bankers distribute it as they wish. Better shape up quick.

from Jessie.

I dont own any stock but my wife does.

For her sake I am not as the article says. However, if I owned Goldman Sachs stock I would have to be asking myself why are all the bonuses being paid when the dividend is so puny and has not being raised.

I cannot figure out why the board of directors, Corporate leaders or shareholders cannot seem to get that question on the table at any of these big public companies: just kidding I have got it figured out and that is why my last stock purchase was 1972 aand why I became a Broker for my first career.

Cindy

[cjppjc]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I think it would be a little naive to think jealousy doesn't play some role.

[oddlots]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

Good point.

Which should be examined after the salient issue of whether we are headed in a sustainable direction or not is answered.

I've thought about this myself a lot and I can't remember a time where I've felt a moment's worth of rancor against Jobs or Sergei Brin or any talented actor making insane pay. I don't want anyone to decide what their services are worth: the market decides.

I don't hate Soros or Paulson (the hedge fund trader, not the other one) or Rogers. I actually like traders generally: they know how the system works and impart a lot of trench-level knowledge. And they, like me, aren't in charge. (I love it when the trading pit behind Santelli boos Bernanke. They'll make their money either way but they know he's not good for the country.)

I don't care about how much money banker's make as long as it's not at the expense of someone else. The point of the FIRE economy argument is that it is almost purely at the expense of someone else. This is rent seeking behaviour and it is parasitical and completely contrary to the principles of economic liberalism that "free markets" are supposed to represent.

As Jim Grant asks, "where is the outrage?"

So really I would turn the suggestion you make on its head: the values that make it repugnant to covet someone else's success are exactly the values that should drive us to condemn these people.

[Crazyfingers]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I want the pricks to go to jail or at least be fired. Let's say some asshole in my community suckered little old ladies out of their money, using marketing scams and charming deception. Then gambles it all away. I would guarantee that the community would make sure this prick went to jail. He might even end up worse off with broken legs.

Unfortunately this isnt happening. This old lady swindler has bought off the mayor and the local police. At the same time running a brilliant pr campaign of convincing the whole damn town that we NEED him swindling little old ladies so he can buy our products, frequent our restraunts, and donate to charities and churches. What would we do without him! So the community sucks it up, borrows money, and gives it all to him to keep the local economy going!

Maybe there is something to this flouride in the water thing. It scrambles my brain that we are not only allowing this to happen but promoting it.

They want us to compare them to high paid actors or athletes. Thats their PR push atm. They are criminals gambling away others earnings. Sometimes they win, sometimes we lose.

It has nuthing to do with jealousy for me, I just want the people to wake up and serve these conmen justice.

[sunskyfan]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I think it would be naive to think that jealousy had any relevant role here. Eventually words have to mean something. None of these guys deserve bonuses. Perhaps commissions. Maybe commissions. But not bonuses.

Remember that Wall Street was FIRED by the free market. The bail-out is history's largest welfare/unemployment program.

[jpatter666]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

There is still massive government backing of the bank portfolios. They are getting access to Fed money at ridiculous rates. Many of their worst loans were shuttled off to the Fed or Freddie/Fannie.

If they can parse out such bonuses, then can afford to eliminate the backing, take back their junk loans, pay a reasonable rate for cash.

If not, I invite them to quit, join hedge funds and gamble their *own* money.

If the banks are going to act like "hey we didn't need the money and we paid it all back" let's call them on it and threaten to cut *all* the support.

It'll never happen, but I'm highly ticked that the bankers are acting like this was just a temporary unforseeable blip. God help them if they need bailing out again -- I can't see the public ever allowing it.

[Kadriana]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I dont own any stock but my wife does.

For her sake I am not as the article says. However, if I owned Goldman Sachs stock I would have to be asking myself why are all the bonuses being paid when the dividend is so puny and has not being raised.



Cindy

Oh, they don't want to increase the dividend right now because they're worried about a double dip and don't want to have to decrease it again. At least that's the explanation I heard on CNBC while folding laundry.

[gnk]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I think it would be a little naive to think jealousy doesn't play some role.

I don't think so.

If someone stole money from you then bought a Ferrarri and drove around town with it - which emotion would you feel? Anger or Jealousy?

For me, jealousy is irrelevant. They STOLE the money. AIG pass thru, Tax Breaks, Backstops thru the fed, fdic, and treasury... etc...

So here's my thought process:

Is that how capitalism should work? What are the future consequences to our republic when some are more equal than others and socialize their losses? What about regulatory capture? Does the Congress work any more - or is it just an Insurance company that bails out the big boys and writes banker friendly laws? Will these players attain a level of arrogance and subsequent riskier behavior? Will moral hazard play a role now in a future blow up in the economy? And since the Treasury has given them so much, will the Treasury be able to pay back borrowed funds from Social Security?

Those are the things going thru my mind... not some petty thought such as "gee.. I hate him because I don't drive a Ferrarri."

[GRG55]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

I want the pricks to go to jail or at least be fired...

Awww, you're just jealous...;)

I think it would be a little naive to think jealousy doesn't play some role.

Doubtless such a powerful human emotion plays some role. But I suspect jealousy played a much larger role before the unholy Trinity of politicians, Central Bankers and the financial sector blew up the real economies of one country after another.

As others here have pointed out, jealousy is now giving way to dismay, outrage, discouragement, disillusion. That's what is being reflected in the President's poll results, the pages of Rolling Stone magazine and the normally business friendly WSJ, where in the good ol' days we would never have seen anything worded like this:

Banks Set for Record Pay

Top Firms on Pace to Award $145 Billion for 2009, Up 18%, WSJ Study Finds

JANUARY 14, 2010

...Instead, the socialist bankers saved the banks (and their own asses), rather than the banking system.

What may thwart the massive Fed giveaway is the self-interested institutions, who are not lending, not writing down debt, and capturing the lion share of this wealth via bonuses. Perhaps they realize the true state of their balance sheets, and are making hay while the sun is shining.

On top of this, the recapitalization plan only works if these insolvent institutions get to hide their massive losses from their owners — namely, the shareholders (and in some instances, the taxpayers).

Thanks to the Congressionally mandated FASB rule changes back in March of 2009, Mark-to-Market was replaced with Mark-to-Make-Believe. We do not if these banks are actually profitable (GS), whether they are barely solvent (Chase/JPM), somewhat insolvent (BofA) or totally bankrupt (Citi). Given the lack of transparent accounting, we simply do not, and cannot, know...

What is going on here is remarkably transparent by the current standards of our politicians and bankers. [:rolleyes:].

Envy and jealousy are regarded as unattractive, undesirable, potentially destructive attributes in societies, like ours, founded on Christian values [a hundred years ago envy and jealousy would have been labelled abhorrent sins, and fruitful subject for the Sunday homily ].

The public have woken up to the unimaginable scale of the looting, by the unholy alliance, of generations of taxpayers to come. No matter how much the apologists bluster about the "necessity" of the actions taken, and no matter how hard Treasury, the SEC and others try to hide information behind secrecy orders, the facts are emerging and they are irrefutable.

Under such a circumstance, when it becomes impossible to maintain support for an action by arguing the facts, the only alternative is to attack the motives and credibility of the critics. For example, how often have we heard that questioning the war in Iraq [and even the original justification for that action] is "unpatriotic"?

Neither the Central Bankers nor the financial sector answer to the public. But they both know that the elected politicians do. And they both know that their re-appointment or compensation, as the case might be, and the amount of political control their organizations are subject to can be materially adversely affected by the decisions of those same politicians. Whether orchestrated or ad hoc, a campaign to blame it all on the repugnant qualities of envy and jealousy amongst the plebeians throughout the Republic seems nothing more than another element in an increasingly desperate effort to deflect some of the heat from their benefactors in an election year.

[flintlock]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

The ignorant feel jealousy. The well informed, outrage.

[GRG55]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

The ignorant feel jealousy. The well informed, outrage.

What I inferred from the original post & link that started this thread was an accusation of widespread jealousy on the part of the general population.

So the question I would ask is "Who is really the ignorant party here?"

[raja]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

... our problem is apparently that we're jealous:
Wall Street Thinks You Are a Jealous Little Malcontent

This is great!
The more arrogant the Financial Elite become, the faster and harder they will fall.

The Big Dog in the room is starting to wake up, and he's not in a good mood :eek:. Think French Revolution. The Fat Cats think they are in control, but the reality is that they are in the minority, so anything can happen. Suppose the American People -- whipped into a "jealous" rage -- decide that they want a 100% tax on anything earned above $1,000,000 a year, with the excess tax collected distributed to "the jealous little Malcontents". How many Americans would vote for that? Anyone not earning $1,000,000 a year, and I imagine that's quite a few of us. There are no rules except the Will of the People.

Let all the rich Robbers move to other countries. Loss of "talent"? Talent for theft. There are thousands of honest people who would be happy to earn $1,000,000 a year, who could run a bank better than the criminals now at the helm.

What can The People do right now . . . Vote out the Incumbent Politician Enablers AND pull their money from the Big Banks. That's just the beginning, though . . . .

[oddlots]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

And just to hone the outrage a little more, Yves at Naked Capitalism had a good reading of Obama here:

"Today, Obama said to the banking industry, “We want our money back and we’re going to get it.”
Has he forgotten that possession is nine-tenths of the law?
While Uncle Sam is normally able to defeat such long odds, all bets are off with our “Speak moderately and carry no stick” President. The fact that Obama is finally, after months of open intransigence by the big capital markets firms, saying a few mildly critical words is supposed to signal a change of posture. But he is clearly begging: “I’d urge you to cover the costs of the rescue not by sticking it to your shareholders or your customers or your citizens but by rolling back bonuses.”
Hint: urging gets you nowhere with this crowd.
Obama has been repeatedly praised for his soaring rhetoric, and I simply do not get it. It’s pretty easy to sound grand if you aren’t dispensing ideas that challenge the status quo. We are supposed to take his way-too-little-too-late finger shaking at the banksters seriously. By contrast, consider this section of FDR’s first inaugural address:

….the rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed, through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.
True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.
The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.
Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men.
Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be valued only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit; and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing.

Yves here. Admittedly, it is much easier telling Americans that the pursuit of lucre is a false god when most of the country is broke. But more is that FDR from the very outset set himself up as an opponent of rule by the banking classes. He depicts them as failures and calls them unscrupulous and selfish. By contrast, have were ever heard Obama even hint that bankers were less than ethical? Let’s see, last December, he called them “fat cats“! Ah yes, of course, everyone knows a cat will steal a sardine if you aren’t watching. Yeah, that Obama sure knows how to dress those bankers down!"


FWIW I don't think that you have to be a fan of FDR to accept Yves point here: the comparison simply highlights who's in charge in each case and in the latter case the government is clearly in a subservient role.


The same applies in other OECD markets as far as I can tell. Gordon Brown has definitely drunk the kool aid too.



I'll know the situation has changed when the developed world's governments are seriously discussing at a minimum shrinking the big banks and / or ring fencing the public utility side of banking from trading.

[gnk]

Re: We've been diagnosed...

What I inferred from the original post & link that started this thread was an accusation of widespread jealousy on the part of the general population.

So the question I would ask is "Who is really the ignorant party here?"

Exactly!

I believe the hoi polloi are well aware of the theft that is taking place. Sure, they may not know the details and methods involved, but they can smell a rat nonetheless.

It's the bankster's arrogance that is causing them to misdiagnose the hoi polloi's fury.