Haiti Earthquake Coverage

[ASH]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

(but I'm really a Browncoat!).

Ever since I saw your handle, I wondered.

[jpatter666]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

A few years ago I read Jared Diamond's "Collapse" which had a very interesting section on why Haiti and the Dominican Republic (they share the same island) were so different.

He makes the interesting point that it used to be the reverse -- in the 19th century, Haiti was the rich and powerful country, invading the Dominican multiple times and indeed once annexing it for 22 years.

His premise is that much of the difference can be laid at the feet of massive environmental mismanagement by Haiti. Oddly, the Dominican seemed to be on the same path but was halted by one of their most brutal dictators (I guess his environmentalism was one of his few redeeming features).

Anyways, if you have not read the book (and even more interesting, Guns, Germs and Steel) I recommend it.

My wife tells me it's a serious downward trend now in the capital -- desperate people have started looting. It's basically destroyed and may well have to be leveled and rebuilt. Hard to get anything in with the port wrecked, streets blocked, etc.

Note: this is what she is getting back from the field. She is not onsite, to be clear.

[ViC78]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Here is a good overview of why Haiti is so poor. In fact, the impoverishment of the people through slave labor practices by corporations, poor educational opportunities and language barriers are quite frightening. Interesting and eye-opening read.

HAITI: THE JEWEL OF THE ANTILLES

Haiti, once called The Jewel of the Antilles, was the richest colony in the entire world. Economists estimate that in the 1750s Haiti provided as much as 50% of the Gross National Product of France. The French imported sugar, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, cotton, the dye indigo and other exotic products. In France they were refined, packaged and sold all over Europe. Incredible fortunes were made from this tiny colony on the island of Hispaniola.
How could Haiti have once been the source of such wealth and today be the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere? How could this land that was once so productive today be semi-barren? How did "The Jewel of the Antilles" become the Caribbean's hell-hole?
ROOT CAUSES: A. INTERNATIONAL FORCES

1. THE FRENCH COLONIAL CONTRIBUTION. One of the primary reasons that Haiti was such a productively rich land was because of slave labor. When people are willing to put productivity above all other values, then productivity is likely to soar. Not only did the slaves work long days under tremendously unsafe conditions, with little or no technology beyond hand labor, but Haiti's slave system was the most brutal in the Caribbean. Many documents of Western slavery explain that the ultimate threat to a recalcitrant slave was that he or she would be sold to Haiti.
   Unfortunately for the masses of Haitians, slavery did not die with French rule. Rather, the basic concept of forced cheap labor was passed on to the emerging native Haitian elite. The French system allowed for some slaves to earn their freedom by exceptional work. This system worked well to get more productivity from the slaves, and the system was tough enough that very few slaves were able to earn their freedom. Thus slave owners got increased productivity with little loss of slaves through freedom.
   A second group of slaves who became free were the mulattos, the children of white masters and slave women. These children were in a middle ground, uncomfortable to both slaves and whites. The slaves never knew how the white man would respond to his child, but often the slave owner didn't want to be reminded of his paternity. Thus mulattos were not welcomed in either community. Many mulattos received their freedom and formed a special middle class in the colonial period.
   A special class of freed slaves emerged. About 1/2 of them were freed black slaves and about 1/2 of them were mulattos. They could receive some education, operate businesses, own property and in general imitate the French.
   This imitation of the French became the hallmark of these freedmen. They wanted a clear separation from their slave backgrounds. Thus they imitated the whites. They adopted their religion, language, dress, culture, education and ways. But, most importantly for this story, they learned the value of slave labor. The colonial French heritage carried on in the Haitian elite's imitation of the French labor system. This is an important factor in Haiti's later misery.
2. INTERNATIONAL BOYCOTT OF THE NEW HAITI. After the revolution which concluded in January, 1804, Haiti became the second free country in the Western World (after the United States), and the first black republic. However, the United States was still a slave nation, as was England. While France had freed the Haitian slaves during the revolution, France and other European nations had slaves in Africa and Asia. The international community decided that Haiti's model of a nation of freed slaves was a dangerous precedent. An international boycott of Haitian goods and commerce plunged the Haitian economy into chaos.
   It is difficult to measure the exact impact of this international conspiracy. Here was a nation of ex-slaves trying to rise to democratic self-rule, rising to run an economy in which the masses had only served as slaves before. The international boycott of Haitian products at this time was devastating for Haiti's long-term economic development.
3. THE FRENCH DEBT OF 1838. The Haitian governments were extremely anxious to be recognized by France and the Europeans. But France would not recognize Haiti unless indemnities were paid for lands of former slave owners taken over after the revolution. Finally, in 1838 President Boyer of Haiti accepted a 150 million franc debt to pay this indemnity. This debt plagued the economy of Haiti for over 80 years and was not finally paid until 1922. In the meantime Haiti paid many times over 150 million francs in interest on this debt. It is difficult to measure the incredible harm which this did to the Haitian economy, but by the most conservative measures it was extremely significant.
4. THE UNITED STATES OCCUPATION OF 1915-1938. Perhaps the most serious blow Haiti ever had to her independence and self-image was the occupation of the United States Marines in 1915. The marines took over control of the collection of revenues, the banks, and forced through a new "Haitian" constitution which repealed the 1804 provision that foreigners could never own land in Haiti. The U.S. decided who would and would not be government servants. The only factor of Haitian life which seemed to escape U.S. domination was education. The elite's identification with French culture was too strong for even the marines to overcome and the schools remained French in language and structure.
5. POST WORLD WAR II UNITED STATES DOMINATION. The occupation ended in 1934. However, the U.S. presence in both the economy and internal government affairs was well established. Ever since the occupation and increasingly since 1946, the United States, through the power of its aid packages, has played a central role in Haitian politics. In this way the U.S. has contributed to the misery of Haiti since it has given oppressive governments comfortable aid packages which kept these rulers in power. The United States was not interested in furthering Haitian misery itself, rather this is the price the U.S. has had to pay to keep friendly governments in power so that American military, propaganda and economic interests could be served. The result may well have served the interests of U.S. control in the region, but the issue here is the cause of Haitian misery. U.S. backed governments have certainly been a major factor in this suffering.
   

http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/hai...er/whypoor.htm

[ViC78]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

His premise is that much of the difference can be laid at the feet of massive environmental mismanagement by Haiti. .

The article which I linked to above expands on this point.

1. SOIL EROSION. Nearly everyone has heard about Haiti's disastrous soil erosion. Haiti is a mountainous country. For the past 200 years people have been cutting the trees on their mountains without replanting. Now, when the rainy season comes with its four or five months of daily pounding rains, one can see the brown rivers torrent down the mountain sides and watch, helplessly, as Haiti's little remaining soil flows out into the Caribbean Sea. How has this terrible situation come about?
   There are four primary reasons for the soil erosion:
   
   1. The need for fuel.
   2. The need to earn a living.
   3. Ignorance.
   4. Lack of motivation to reform.
   
   
   1. Haiti has no fuel except wood. People cook with charcoal. This requires massive amounts of wood to provide fuel for 6 million people. Thus the demand on wood as a crop is the immediate cause of the denuding of the mountains of Haiti.
   2. The immediate motivation of much of the cutting is economic. Peasants are hungry. They have little available work. But wood is in constant demand as charcoal, or to sell to others to make charcoal. Peasant wood-cutters who do understand the soil erosion problem will argue that they have no alternative. They either cut and sell wood or they starve. Mainly they are right. Haiti suffers massive unemployment and most peasants have inadequate access to farm lands.
   3. Because of the problems of illiteracy and lack of education detailed above, Haitian wood cutters do not really understand the extent of damage their cutting does. These uneducated peasants have little sense of history. In their generation Haiti has always looked denuded like it does today. Thus to convince them that they are contributing to Haiti's misery by cutting the few trees which any one of them cuts, is not a very convincing argument. When compared with the alternatives of hunger or even starvation facing the wood sellers, the argument fundamentally makes no sense.
   4. There is little motivation for wood cutters to replant more trees. Mainly they do not own the land. They cut here or there as sharecroppers or renters, then move on to other lands. The land owners are often city people or more wealthy village folks and they do not keep a close watch on their lands. Were they to replant, it is likely that the neighbors' animals would eat the seedling trees since there is little forage left in Haiti. The land tenure system--the way land is owned and used in Haiti--provides little motivation to anyone to replant the trees. Of course, it is in the interest of the nation as a whole to replant trees. But, no individuals who own, share-crop or rent lands are personally motivated to do this costly and troublesome, and non-economic work.

[shiny!]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Ever since I saw your handle, I wondered.

Awesome. Browncoats, Arise!

[DToM67]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Ever since I saw your handle, I wondered.

Lookie HERE

[Raz]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

You've stated your opinion as a fact. Facts can be supported by data. Please back up your statement with proof. If by "current" you mean "majority", I think you're dead wrong. I know NO Republicans who agree with Robertson's statement. I know NO Christians who agree with Robertson's statement. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but they don't speak for all Republicans or Christians, only for themselves. I don't know what the hell you mean by "christiano-fascist". Do you even understand what fascism is???

Mulaman is on my "ignore" list; perhaps he should be on yours.

He's very good at ignorant, malicious bashing of Christians, "Fox news watching retards", Republicans (as if they were all clones), Conservatives (as if they are all NeoCons), etc. He even bashed me for mentioning my wife's insured treatment for breast cancer!

His "facts" are only opinions and are almost never worth the time it takes to read them.
There are too many intelligent and informative posts on this website to waste your time and mental energy reading his.

[shiny!]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Mulaman is on my "ignore" list; perhaps he should be on yours.

He's very good at ignorant, malicious bashing of Christians, "Fox news watching retards", Republicans (as if they were all clones), Conservatives (as if they are all NeoCons), etc. He even bashed me for mentioning my wife's insured treatment for breast cancer!

His "facts" are only opinions and are almost never worth the time it takes to read them.
There are too many intelligent and informative posts on this website to waste your time and mental energy reading his.

Thanks, Raz. Now that I've learned where the handy-dandy ignore button lives, I think I'll do that. Life's too short to get riled up over nonsense. There's too much real stuff to get riled up about.

DToM67, thanks for the link. A contrary Libertarian Browncoat. Shiny!

[leegs]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Awesome. Browncoats, Arise!

So I researched Browncoats, but can't determine what the Shiny reference means, although it is quite common. Help a brutha out . . .

[ASH]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

So I researched Browncoats, but can't determine what the Shiny reference means, although it is quite common. Help a brutha out . . .

You would have to have watched the show. It's just an expression of approval or happiness -- sort of like "cool" or "swell" or "great". Some screenwriters establish a sense of place by introducing bits of made-up slang dialog like this. As a fan of the show, it caught my eye.

And for the record, cancellation of that show was when I lost my faith in the basic decency of mankind, and my heart turned to nihilistic blackness and despair. I tried to get a Buddhist monk to immolate himself on the steps of the network headquarters, but gasoline prices were high at the time, and I had difficulty making the moral necessity of that act of protest and outrage clear to the monk.

At my wedding, a friend shouted out a toast "To Jayne!" and I yelled "To me!". Only my wife and a few of our friends got the reference, but the event was already strange enough that few bothered wondering about it.

[leegs]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

You would have to have watched the show. It's just an expression of approval or happiness -- sort of like "cool" or "swell" or "great". Some screenwriters establish a sense of place by introducing bits of made-up slang dialog like this. As a fan of the show, it caught my eye.

And for the record, cancellation of that show was when I lost my faith in the basic decency of mankind, and my heart turned to nihilistic blackness and despair. I tried to get a Buddhist monk to immolate himself on the steps of the network headquarters, but gasoline prices were high at the time, and I had difficulty making the moral necessity of that act of protest and outrage clear to the monk.

At my wedding, a friend shouted out a toast "To Jayne!" and I yelled "To me!". Only my wife and a few of our friends got the reference, but the event was already strange enough that few bothered wondering about it.

I did watch it a bit, right at its end, (and the movie of course) and liked it a lot, but failed to catch that reference. That's too bad about that selfish bastard monk. You just can't count on those guys to 'step up'.

[shiny!]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

You would have to have watched the show. It's just an expression of approval or happiness -- sort of like "cool" or "swell" or "great". Some screenwriters establish a sense of place by introducing bits of made-up slang dialog like this. As a fan of the show, it caught my eye.

And for the record, cancellation of that show was when I lost my faith in the basic decency of mankind, and my heart turned to nihilistic blackness and despair.

Ahhhh Ash, so you love it, too. Here's my conspiracy theory: "Firefly" makes people wake up and want to be free again. If it had continued, it could have caused a Browncoat movement, especially in these times. That could not be allowed.

If anyone here hasn't yet seen the all-too-brief series "Firefly" and it's sequel film "Serenity", I urge you to run to Target or Best Buy or Amazon and get them. Watch them in order. If you're not moved, I'll eat my "very fine hat."

Lordy, I've derailed this thread. Sorry!

[ASH]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

The article which I linked to above expands on this point.

Here is an on-topic question (after having wasted everybody's time with unrelated popular culture):

A lot of the problems faced by Haiti seem to stem from weak and/or corrupt government (as is the case, I think, in many poorer post-colonial countries). At least, a strong government could enforce land use policies and try to educate its citizens; a less corrupt government would better marshall what resources Haiti does possess. I have wondered for many years what the solution can be. If the problem is bad government, how can the developed world assist countries like Haiti in a lasting way without resorting to some form of the colonialism that helped create the problem in the first place?

[Master Shake]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Wow, Shiny. You take your party membership quite seriously. That is not often seen around here.

Why does anyone take what a flaming asshole like Mula posts seriously anyway?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Haiti Earthquake Coverage

Ever since I saw your handle, I wondered.

i'm a bit more partial to brownshirts myself.