Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

[wayiwalk]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Shiny,
.....
If I see one more TV show trying to uncover the mystery about obese children and diabetes - I'll go insane - TWO PEOPLE working in a FAMILY and no one as time to look after the children. Children are TIME INTENSIVE - and they have paid the price for so call Liberation of Women - which as lead to the daily incarceration of Children of the World (I mean Day care).

I wish I could understand why I'm so darn obese (okay, overweight by 35 pounds, but that's alot for an ex-runner) when I'm so busy with the time intensive tasks of taking care of my kids :rolleyes:

The worst part of the two parent working household is that it raised the bar for income needed to "just get by", so there was less buffer in case of failure.

By the way, at least once or twice a year I beg my wife to allow me to stay home with the kids, and have her rejoin the very challenging, more than 50+ hrs/week workforce.

I'll never get my way.:mad:

[jneal3]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

The worst part of the two parent working household is that it raised the bar for income needed to "just get by", so there was less buffer in case of failure.

This is, at least, the second time in this thread that it's been proposed that two income families are less financially stable than single income. How is it that a family with two wage earners is more at risk than the same family with one, all other things being equal? Just logically, if a family's expenses to income ratio is held constant, which I don't see any reason why it wouldn't (where-to-live choices would be constrained by the one income), the ratio goes to infinite in a one-wage-earner household that loses its income through job loss; in a two-wage household there is a chance to muddle through a period of unemployment for one of the earners through cost-cutting/borrowing. Might be just my situation, but I'm extremely thankful my wife has a job, just as a buffer.

I know the book 'Two Income Trap' is out there, haven't had time to read it but the reviews I have read don't clear up the logic at all; this whole hypothesis seems completely counter-intuitive.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

That's a good point. I guess there are two ways to "fail" as a family.

The single wage earner family trap is that all can be lost if that one job disappears - and nothing out there to replace it - they can really be stuck. Certainly the case moreso in the present economy, so here, the risk is loss of income risk.

The trap of the two wage earner family is that if costs go up - there is much less the family can do to address it. Here the risk is increase of costs risk. Push comes to shove, my wife can always go back to work and contribute. Families where both parents work have already reached that point can only add additional jobs for one of the parents, certainly a slippery slope.

I've never heard of the book, but I guess the point you raise is that there more than one ways to fail.

My perspective is certainly skewed by the fact that my wife and I are both professionals with good work experience that is still valuable in the present economy.

[jneal3]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

The trap of the two wage earner family is that if costs go up - there is much less the family can do to address it. Here the risk is increase of costs risk. Push comes to shove, my wife can always go back to work and contribute. Families where both parents work have already reached that point can only add additional jobs for one of the parents, certainly a slippery slope.

Okay, I get this now - thanks. Kind of a theory of 'elasticity', measuring ability to respond to cost increases, which apparently goes down as you get into a second income. This theory definitely assumes that the emergency second wage earner will even be able to kick it in gear and get a job in what would have to be presumed an already tough environment.

[chr5648]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

The United States is poised to be one of the shortest lived nations in history to have wielded continental, let alone world power.

Do you have sources for that statement?

I think the evidence will show the US under the current constitution has survived longer than any other modern nation/society, and is definitely on a better track than older roman/greek/egyptian societies.

Even a simple monarchy would be better at this point.

Opinion.

[aaron]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Do you have sources for that statement?

I think the evidence will show the US under the current constitution has survived longer than any other modern nation/society, and is definitely on a better track than older roman/greek/egyptian societies.



Opinion.

America! Fuck ya!

We invented democracy and have been around the longest, forever and ever!

[BlackVoid]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

This is pure crap. Productivity is (was) increasing very fast with the introduction of machinery. Giving people meaningful work is a bigger problem. So no, we would not need all the women at the workplace.

Women went to work in the early 20th century, because men went to war. Its as simple as that. If there was a hidden agenda behind, then it was controlling population explosion - where women are educated the number of children per family is much lower. But this is good, overpopulated areas will have it much worse in the coming crash (caused mainly by overpopulation).

Brainwashing in schools and in the media is a fact, but you do not need working women for that. And we can all see how is the life of women in places where they are not allowed to work. They are making children and nothing else. Too many of them.

[BlackVoid]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

"and is definitely on a better track than older roman/greek/egyptian societies."

Not really, the US shows all the classical symptoms of decline. Collapse is inevitable, the timing is the only question. See Joseph Tainter: Collapse of Complex Societies.

[chr5648]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

"and is definitely on a better track than older roman/greek/egyptian societies."

Not really, the US shows all the classical symptoms of decline. Collapse is inevitable, the timing is the only question. See Joseph Tainter: Collapse of Complex Societies.

It may seem like that, since our perceptions are biased due to living in the present era.

If read history and adjust your perspective to the various civilizations and times through history, you can clearly see the difference in ideology between the US and any other civilization before it.

To start off, most civilizations before the US had an absolute lack of human rights or respect for humanity. They had slaves and under classes that were treated horrifically. This was required because society needed slavery, feudalism, underclass for the elites to live lavishly since they did not have the technological know how or a way to harness energy for mass production. This was the normal structure of society for THOUSANDS of years.

This changed when our society fought in a revolution against the BRITISH EMPIRE, they were an EMPIRE, a MONARCHY, which except for the magna carta gave the king absolute rule. We beat them, then we did what no other society in the history of man did, put power in the peoples hands, through democracy Then 80 years later we fought a CIVIL WAR for the rights of all humans on this land. One of the bloodiest wars fought for HUMAN RIGHTS and HUMAN DIGNITY. Did the romans/greeks/egyptians do that? Did any society/civilization ever fight for the under class?

This then forced the US to be innovative, to replace the slave labor/underclass used over thousands of years. What did we do? built the greatest country on earth, steam ships, railroads, harnessed the power of coal, oil, water. Another 80 years later WW2 we fought another war, for the freedom of europe and the world.

How many countries/civilizations/nations fight to preserve freedom, fight for basic human rights? most of the time its for conquest and adding land and power. You may interpret america as an empire or imperialistic, but through out history, never have people been so free as in America.

We may be having some structural and economic problems right now but the evidence through history shows itself. We are a different society than others. Now you can decide whether we are better for it or not?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

This is why I like living in Canada so much better; it's like living like the beaver on the Canadian nickel: The beaver doesn't fight for freedom, nor for rights, nor slogans, nor empires; not for presidents, nor monarchs, nor clerics, nor generals..... In fact, the beaver doesn't fight for much of anything..... Instead, the beaver just chews on its log and builds its dam, oblivious to the cold and the dampness, the winter, and to the odds. The beaver just survives.

[raja]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

To start off, most civilizations before the US had an absolute lack of human rights or respect for humanity. They had slaves and under classes that were treated horrifically. This was required because society needed slavery, feudalism, underclass for the elites to live lavishly since they did not have the technological know how or a way to harness energy for mass production. This was the normal structure of society for THOUSANDS of years.

We are heading toward Debt Serfdom . . . .
It remains to be seen whether the American people will get off their asses and Vote Out the Incumbents, etc.
I think they will . . . .

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

America! Fuck ya!

We invented democracy and have been around the longest, forever and ever!

what an awesome video!

[oddlots]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Second that. Best laugh I've had all week.

[SamAdams]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

It may seem like that, since our perceptions are biased due to living in the present era.

If read history and adjust your perspective to the various civilizations and times through history, you can clearly see the difference in ideology between the US and any other civilization before it.

To start off, most civilizations before the US had an absolute lack of human rights or respect for humanity. They had slaves and under classes that were treated horrifically. This was required because society needed slavery, feudalism, underclass for the elites to live lavishly since they did not have the technological know how or a way to harness energy for mass production. This was the normal structure of society for THOUSANDS of years.

This changed when our society fought in a revolution against the BRITISH EMPIRE, they were an EMPIRE, a MONARCHY, which except for the magna carta gave the king absolute rule. We beat them, then we did what no other society in the history of man did, put power in the peoples hands, through democracy Then 80 years later we fought a CIVIL WAR for the rights of all humans on this land. One of the bloodiest wars fought for HUMAN RIGHTS and HUMAN DIGNITY. Did the romans/greeks/egyptians do that? Did any society/civilization ever fight for the under class?

This then forced the US to be innovative, to replace the slave labor/underclass used over thousands of years. What did we do? built the greatest country on earth, steam ships, railroads, harnessed the power of coal, oil, water. Another 80 years later WW2 we fought another war, for the freedom of europe and the world.

How many countries/civilizations/nations fight to preserve freedom, fight for basic human rights? most of the time its for conquest and adding land and power. You may interpret america as an empire or imperialistic, but through out history, never have people been so free as in America.

We may be having some structural and economic problems right now but the evidence through history shows itself. We are a different society than others. Now you can decide whether we are better for it or not?

These are all good ideas and I think society in general has made some good changes for the better. Not that those changes are not in danger of being rolled back or other positive aspects are being attacked in current society. Soon I won't be able to eat salt in NYC! Is that progress?

Anyway I think you should read some other history books. The Civil War was largely fought by the money powers to hold together their union against southern states that were trying to promote their 10th amendment rights of independence. Not to excuse slavery but the war was largely unconstitutional. Similarly the revolutionary war was fought to escape a central government authority - however soon after the new government was setup, George Washington marched the new army on his own people in the Whiskey Rebellion.

I'm all for human rights but let's not pretend the US government is somehow drastically more enlightened than many other more states that seem at odds with human rights. Governments by their nature are at odds with human rights. We wouldn't need a Constitution (and we aren't using it anyway) if that was the case.

[cjppjc]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Out of all the failures of liberalism, none are easier to quickly dismiss than this. Living in New York City gives a man of character an excellent opportunity to observe this cultural dysfunction, but also a rake fertile ground upon which to ply his trade.

Rather than descend into a rant, I will say that modern feminism has resulted in many unhappy women. Most are emotionally broken, their souls conflicted between the impossible dream of being a mother, being glamorous, and being successful.

In the event our corrupt democratic regime collapses, I imagine women will be the first to support a new paradigm that places significant weight on the value of motherhood. You'd be surprised how many attractive, successful women are quite enthralled with my own calls for the abolition of democracy and the establishment of an authoritarian aristocracy.

Feminism surely has made played a major role in our present troubles, but it is an easy problem to solve. Fear not.

Many women may well be unhappy. It may also be true that the general state of men in these times has something to do with it. In observing what appear to be contented woman, I find they are for the most part happy with the man in their life. He is not a nervous twit. Or a paranoid doomer. For lack of a better term he has a certain balance.