Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Anyone ever think it was a way to get around civil rights 4 minorities--by making women (white women) a minority. Now you can hire a white person' but hey are a minority. Just being cynical.

[Master Shake]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

I am disturbed by the revelation of this Mr. Aaron Russo in "thisandthat.nowandth" link. I want to know more about his credentials. is he a reliable person with elvel head or a propagandist ?

Anyone who thinks 9-11 was "an inside job" is not worth my time. YMMV.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Anyone who thinks 9-11 was "an inside job" is not worth my time. YMMV.

In that event, I recommend you add me to your ignore list .

[skidder]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

In that event, I recommend you add me to your ignore list .

Might as well put me on it as well. (not that my comments are worthy of an "ignore")

[shiny!]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

In that event, I recommend you add me to your ignore list .

I just keep liking you better and better.

More on topic, this is an interesting discussion. World Traveler said it beautifully. When I read anti-feminist statements along the lines of, "Women should...", or "Women should not ...", or "Women are all..." I substitute the word "black" for "women". While no respectable person today would make such statements about blacks, many still think it's appropriate to define what women should and shouldn't do, and worse, what women should and should't want.

Personally, I've always hated the phrase "Women's Lib" because I've usually heard it said by men (and some women) with derision in their voices and sneers on their lips. The Women's Movement started with demands for "equal pay for equal work", and "equal treatment under the law", and for the life of me I've never been able to understand how anyone could feel threatened by that.

Steve Forbes advocated a return to the gold standard, saying that inflation due to fiat currency was forcing both parents in a household to work, causing a breakdown of the family and resulting social problems. I agree with him, but don't think a return to the gold standard is the right solution.

When the women's movement started, things were really bad for women with regards to wages and justice, same as they were for blacks. My mother had to start working outside the house in the mid-seventies when my father left. There weren't many jobs available to her that paid a decent wage.

Even my high school's vocational program discriminated against the girls, when they wouldn't have dreamed of discriminating against the black male students. Boys were funneled into training for high-paying trades such as plumbing and electrician work. Girls were restricted to secretarial training. I fought this policy in my school, and was loudly heckled by boys who thought they were so bright, so original, by calling me a "women's libber."

I'll always be a feminist when it comes to equality under the law. I don't like where the movement has gone involving itself in gun control and leftist politics. IMO, Dr. Condoleeza Rice deserves just as many accolades from feminists as does Hillary Clinton.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

My mother had to start working outside the house in the mid-seventies when my father left.

I was quite active in the feminist movement in the mid-seventies, on the board of directors for Atlanta NOW, marching for the ERA, vice-chair of the Atlanta NOW newsletter, and attended the NOW annual convention in Philadelphia in 1977 when Ellie Smeal replaced Karen DeCrow as President of NOW.

Bad things happen to good movements.

The feminist movement has become heavily influenced by hardcore leftists who denounce men, denounce families and marriage, and denounce consensual conjugal intercourse as rape (but not what Bill Clinton did with some interns;).)

Just because something is good doesn't mean that we should empower our federal government to force it. Large governments are blunt tools, easily captured by those who would abuse good causes to evil purposes.

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

I was quite active in the feminist movement in the mid-seventies, on the board of directors for Atlanta NOW, marching for the ERA, vice-chair of the Atlanta NOW newsletter, and attended the NOW annual convention in Philadelphia in 1977 when Ellie Smeal replaced Karen DeCrow as President of NOW.

Bad things happen to good movements.

The feminist movement has become heavily influenced by hardcore leftists who denounce men, denounce families and marriage, and denounce consensual conjugal intercourse as rape (but not what Bill Clinton did with some interns;).)

Just because something is good doesn't mean that we should empower our federal government to force it. Large governments are blunt tools, easily captured by those who would abuse good causes to evil purposes.

It wasn't rape -thats the problem with feminists. They can not over come the millions of girls who want to grow up to be strippers / courtesans. It seems that pride takes a destant second place to gucci and versace. Just ask Madonna /Pamela Sue anderson and a bunch of others celebrities who are famous and vaunted for not having character/ethics and definitely would reveal anything they have for the almoighty dollars.

Mark my word -the days of males asking woman to provide for them because they are good looking and healthy is around the corner. By 2030 -you will see a bunch of guys saying -hey-I am hot -why get a job -I can just feed off someone. Maybe marry an older woman -and get half-in the divorce for life !

[Master Shake]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

In that event, I recommend you add me to your ignore list .

No, you're a smart guy. I'll just overlook any talk that veers onto that subject as temporary insanity.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

"Religions derive their power and popularity in part from the ethical compass they offer. So why do so many faiths help perpetuate something that most of us regard as profoundly unethical: the oppression of women?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/op...10kristof.html 1/9/10

"There is of course plenty of fodder, in both the Koran and the Bible, for those who seek a theology of discrimination."

The New Testament quotes St. Paul (I Timothy 2) as saying that women “must be silent.” Deuteronomy declares that if a woman does not bleed on her wedding night, “the men of her town shall stone her to death.” An Orthodox Jewish prayer thanks God, “who hast not made me a woman.” The Koran stipulates that a woman shall inherit less than a man, and that a woman’s testimony counts for half a man’s.


In fairness, many scholars believe that Paul did not in fact write the passages calling on women to be silent. And Islam started out as socially progressive for women — banning female infanticide and limiting polygamy — but did not continue to advance.


But religious leaders sanctified existing social structures, instead of pushing for justice. In Africa, it would help enormously if religious figures spoke up for widows disenfranchised by unjust inheritance traditions — or for rape victims, or for schoolgirls facing sexual demands from their teachers. Instead, in Uganda, the influence of conservative Christians is found in a grotesque push to execute gays.

[shiny!]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

I was quite active in the feminist movement in the mid-seventies, on the board of directors for Atlanta NOW, marching for the ERA, vice-chair of the Atlanta NOW newsletter, and attended the NOW annual convention in Philadelphia in 1977 when Ellie Smeal replaced Karen DeCrow as President of NOW.

I was the youngest active member of the San Antonio chapter of NOW in the mid-seventies. Such heady times... had a lot of fun.

Bad things happen to good movements.

The feminist movement has become heavily influenced by hardcore leftists who denounce men, denounce families and marriage, and denounce consensual conjugal intercourse as rape (but not what Bill Clinton did with some interns;).)

Yep. I think they're doing women, and men, a huge disservice now. Fanaticism never helps anybody.

Just because something is good doesn't mean that we should empower our federal government to force it. Large governments are blunt tools, easily captured by those who would abuse good causes to evil purposes.

There are few problems that can't be made worse by the involvement of government.

This is a terrific bunch of people here.

[chr5648]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Some thoughts of the way I see it.

1) When the womens work movement started, businesses and corporations were able to hire women at lower wages than men, thus decreasing wage pressure and getting cheap labor.

2) Instead of finding more men to work or importing asians or europeans they just found women put them into the work force and decreased the pressure of increasing wages. 2 people working instead of 1, or a lower total rate than the wages of 2 men. Simple supply and demand.

Here's the kicker, then you create a brainwashing science called marketing and sell over priced branded crap to women. Turn them into materialistic consumers.

There was a good documentary called the century of self on how the PR and marketing evolved right in line with the womens movement and the US.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2273825999151#

Call my cynical but, being young, most of the women I meet, are just looking for $$$$$$ to buy crap that some marketers told them too.

They aren't liberated from the household but, slaves to a debt, central banking, money printing, consumer, materialistic system, etc. system.

My post may seem condescending or offensive to some, but I love women and everything about them. Hope no one takes offense.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

"I believe in equal right for everyone according to their circumstances....Women do have rights, but they are based on our view of their obligations in life." --Dr. Saleh al-Sheikh, the minister for Islamic affairs in Saudi Arabia.
Although women make up 70% of those enrolled in universities, women make up just 7% of the workforce in Saudi Arabia, the lowest proportion in the world.
Currently, women are not banned from employment, however they are not allowed to work in a mixed sex workplace. The permission for a woman to go out of her house for work, is subject to other conditions. These include:

1. The woman should need to work in order to acquire money she needs.
2. The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no interaction with non-mahram men, such as if she works in teaching girls, whether in administration or technical support.
3. The work should be suited to the woman's body physique and mentality.
4. It should not lead to her neglecting her household duties.
5. Her work should not lead to her traveling without a close male relative.
6. Women are allowed to work with their husbands' permission only.

It is not considered permissible for women to be appointed as judges. Positions of high public office are also reserved for men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2...n_Saudi_Arabia

I would presume, that you are attempting to highlight for us the classic logical fallacy of the ignoratio elenchi.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Is that before or after you get them blathering drunk at the Malthusian shin dings which your previous posts suggest you might attend?

Now, that is a funny post! While 2009 was a year of extensive drunkenness, I am determined that 2010 will be a new time of temperance for me. In fact, I haven't had a drink since Friday!

While I occasionally find myself in some poor late 20s apartment from time to time, it is a decadent vice in which I rarely indulge myself. I'm sorry to say too that my more serious political and academic gatherings are rarely frequented by attractive females, although when they are, they are usually quite crazy and ripe for plundering.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

It wasn't rape -thats the problem with feminists. They can not over come the millions of girls who want to grow up to be strippers / courtesans. It seems that pride takes a destant second place to gucci and versace. Just ask Madonna /Pamela Sue anderson and a bunch of others celebrities who are famous and vaunted for not having character/ethics and definitely would reveal anything they have for the almoighty dollars.

Mark my word -the days of males asking woman to provide for them because they are good looking and healthy is around the corner. By 2030 -you will see a bunch of guys saying -hey-I am hot -why get a job -I can just feed off someone. Maybe marry an older woman -and get half-in the divorce for life !

Aristophanes did an excellent play on this topic. The problem is that the concept of "sharing" is an inherently feminine trait. If it did come to what you describe, they would insist on sharing the beautiful men - and then they would all promptly go insane.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Woman's Liberation as a Power Elite Promotion

Isn't America and the Enlightenment about freedom of choice, for each person? Libertarianism is sympathetic to that view also. NO ONE has the right to decide the appropriate life choices for another, as some of above posters seem to infer. How do they know what is the right choice for any man or woman and what gives them the right to make that judgement? Have they polled each man and woman in the world, so as to make blanket statements about what they want? I don't think so.

1) Everything promised to us by the Enlightenment is a lie. Barbarism, chaos, and unhappiness now rules a world that was once far more dynamic.

2) There are no rights, only shared values upon which people can agree to respect.

3) What you, or anyone else "wants" is ultimately irrelevant. Civilization is built on the concept of duty, not wants.