Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

[Mega]

Engery/Geo-polical
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/LA08Ag01.html

Mike

[Kcim67]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

Engery/Geo-polical
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/LA08Ag01.html

Mike

How do you arrive in this position against what you lot must consider the 3 amigos of geo political manoeuvering of the last 60 yrs, how do you get from the fall of the Berlin Wall and the demise of communism to the busted flush of today. The East was having a battle of Nations the West was having a Battle of Business, the east dressed their battle as one of the many, the West unashamedly billed theirs as the battle of the few paid for by the many, we're still paying pps, our kids and even most adults don't even see this but it is there right in front of us giving us the finger, reading this site so often looks like a history lesson and i hate the fact that we never seem to be able to come up with our own new ways forward but hey the system is not designed that way, the status quo is too comfortable for those they bother to engage in their phoney democracy, the record says "off with their heads" but we'll probably wait for the 3 amigos to land their winning hand!!!!!!!!! :-(


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../LA07Dj03.html


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../LA08Dj01.html

[bcassill]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

Central Asia, long a backwater, has become the center of the world. All of the great powers of the day (Russia, China, and the U.S.) have en extreme interest in the region because of it's natural resources and energy significance.

With the U.S. increasingly unwelcome in the region (due in part to much back door diplomacy on the part of Russia and China), the dynamic duo of Russia and China are set to precipitate one of the largest shifts in geopolitical power not seen since the end of WWII. With a region encompassing the vast expanses of Russia, central Asia, and China, we combine the world's pre-imminent industrial region with secure access to abundant natural resources. In private, the Red Dragon likely views Old Europe and the U.S. as has been powers of yesteryear. The first question is when will China finally emerge as an assertive power politically, economically, and militarily to dominate the region? Second, for how much longer will Russia be willing to play second fiddle to it's larger partner? Will India throw it's hat in the ring to be part of the new center of power? Finally, where is the flashpoint that finally leads the world down the path to what will likely be its last great conflict? Iran? Taiwan? Pakistan?

The U.S. is about to get it's ass handed to it no matter how much military might it thinks it might have. It is not the power it was even 20 years ago particularly since it is currently unable to put even 100K boots on the ground in any given region of the world without an army of "contractors" in tow. :eek:

However, don't count on the Americans to go away quietly. ;)

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

Personally I just feel there is waaaaaaaay too much American bias. I know RJ1 and etc will be ready to pounce on me with how 'anti-american' I am -which I am definitely not. But even a child can see - that natural gas is the future. It is cleaner, has less pollution and cost less. While America is 'focused' on locking up petroleum sources -China/Russia/Iran are moving forward to natural gas.

As I have said earlier -cars being modified to run on natural gas is a REALITY in most third world countries. In fact- I had a business trip in India in 2007 and was astonished to find that 90 percent of the rickshaws and 30 percent of the cars and 30 percent of the buses are all running on natural gas.

According to my conversations with them -they seemed to be happier and felt that the pollution level was much lower. Which -from my perspective -'seemed' to be true. It won't be long till we have a bunch of natural gas generators instead of oil.

I think China/Russia and Iran are realizing that the 'next' alternative clean energy source is already here and has been for the last decade. If this premise is correct -the US has spent billions and billions holding up the past (Saudi Arabia/Israel) and are now catching up to what most BRIC nations are going full steam ahead.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

The U.S. is about to get it's ass handed to it no matter how much military might it thinks it might have. It is not the power it was even 20 years ago particularly since it is currently unable to put even 100K boots on the ground in any given region of the world without an army of "contractors" in tow. :eek:

However, don't count on the Americans to go away quietly. ;)

There I'd disagree with your assessment.

The kind of technical and economic strength that developed the atom bomb in the 1940's and put a man on the moon in the 1960's has continued unabated for another half century with funding exceeding the rest of the world's military technology funding combined and substantially hidden from public view. The military that's in public view (if you include the hired guns such as Xe, Booz Allen Hamilton, SAIC, Scitor, Abraxas, Carlyle, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, et aliter as any would-be enemy of the U.S. must) may only be a few times more capable than the rest of the world's militaries combined. But I suspect our advanced black ops weapons capabilities are overwhelming, absolutely overwhelming.

Russia and China have a serious puzzle on their hands. They will increase their power, but not only is the U.S. not going quietly, the U.S. is not going anytime soon.

[GRG55]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

Central Asia, long a backwater, has become the center of the world. All of the great powers of the day (Russia, China, and the U.S.) have en extreme interest in the region because of it's natural resources and energy significance.

With the U.S. increasingly unwelcome in the region (due in part to much back door diplomacy on the part of Russia and China), the dynamic duo of Russia and China are set to precipitate one of the largest shifts in geopolitical power not seen since the end of WWII. With a region encompassing the vast expanses of Russia, central Asia, and China, we combine the world's pre-imminent industrial region with secure access to abundant natural resources. In private, the Red Dragon likely views Old Europe and the U.S. as has been powers of yesteryear. The first question is when will China finally emerge as an assertive power politically, economically, and militarily to dominate the region? Second, for how much longer will Russia be willing to play second fiddle to it's larger partner? Will India throw it's hat in the ring to be part of the new center of power? Finally, where is the flashpoint that finally leads the world down the path to what will likely be its last great conflict? Iran? Taiwan? Pakistan?

The U.S. is about to get it's ass handed to it no matter how much military might it thinks it might have. It is not the power it was even 20 years ago particularly since it is currently unable to put even 100K boots on the ground in any given region of the world without an army of "contractors" in tow. :eek:

However, don't count on the Americans to go away quietly. ;)

LOL. This says it all...

"...Turkmenistan, with a gross domestic product of US$18.3 billion..."

That's an entire "nation" that can't generate enough income to fund a decent bonus pool for a single Wall Street bank...:rolleyes:

Too many in the media and all the armchair pundits make far too much of of what's going on here...and how "important" Turkmenistan gas is for Nabucco.

Turkmenistan's landlocked gas reserves must have an exit via some other nation's territory. It has no bargaining leverage whatsoever. The GDP number says it all. The proved gas reserves figures fill in whatever questions may remain*. By the time these "strategic partners" are finished with Turkmenistan they will have stripped virtually all of the value in its resource for themselves, with a tidy sum allotted to the family of President Berdimuhamedow [who to his credit is making some progress reversing the North Korean-like personality cult instituted by the late President Niyazov].

"Last great conflict"...My, we are optimistic aren't we.

The original Great Game played out in Central Asia lasted for most of the 19th century. This one will probably last most of the 21st. But Turkmen gas is being made out to be far more important than it really is.

* From the 2009 BP Statistical Review:

Natural Gas Reserves [in trillions of cubic feet]:

Turkmenistan........................ 94
Russia.................................1576
Iran.................................... 981
Qatar.................................. 904
Kazakhstan.......................... 67
Uzbekistan........................... 62
USA.................................... 237
Canada................................ 57
Norway................................ 104
Australia.............................. 88
World Total..........................6290


World natural gas consumption is just over 100 trillion cubic feet per annum.

So tell me again just how "strategic" Turkmen gas is to Russia? Or Iran? Or the USA? Or Europe? Perhaps to China, because it seems intent on going where no one else will venture to satisfy its apparently "voracious" appetite for natural resources and energy. So what...

I have a close business associate from the GCC who's family keeps a permanent hunting camp in Turkmenistan. He tells me it's one of the few places left on earth that is remote enough and undeveloped enough where one can still hunt with falcons, now that the remote regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan are dangerous, even for Arab Muslims.

[GRG55]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

Personally I just feel there is waaaaaaaay too much American bias. I know RJ1 and etc will be ready to pounce on me with how 'anti-american' I am -which I am definitely not. But even a child can see - that natural gas is the future. It is cleaner, has less pollution and cost less. While America is 'focused' on locking up petroleum sources -China/Russia/Iran are moving forward to natural gas.

As I have said earlier -cars being modified to run on natural gas is a REALITY in most third world countries. In fact- I had a business trip in India in 2007 and was astonished to find that 90 percent of the rickshaws and 30 percent of the cars and 30 percent of the buses are all running on natural gas.

According to my conversations with them -they seemed to be happier and felt that the pollution level was much lower. Which -from my perspective -'seemed' to be true. It won't be long till we have a bunch of natural gas generators instead of oil.

I think China/Russia and Iran are realizing that the 'next' alternative clean energy source is already here and has been for the last decade. If this premise is correct -the US has spent billions and billions holding up the past (Saudi Arabia/Israel) and are now catching up to what most BRIC nations are going full steam ahead.

Go to the home page and re-read EJ's two posts from years ago about money and energy. That'll be a good start to bring some balance to the view that somehow natural gas is going to replace oil.

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Russia/China/Iran Shaft the West in pipeline deal

LOL. This says it all...

"...Turkmenistan, with a gross domestic product of US$18.3 billion..."

That's an entire "nation" that can't generate enough income to fund a decent bonus pool for a single Wall Street bank...:rolleyes:

Too many in the media and all the armchair pundits make far too much of of what's going on here...and how "important" Turkmenistan gas is for Nabucco.

Turkmenistan's landlocked gas reserves must have an exit via some other nation's territory. It has no bargaining leverage whatsoever. The GDP number says it all. The proved gas reserves figures fill in whatever questions may remain*. By the time these "strategic partners" are finished with Turkmenistan they will have stripped virtually all of the value in its resource for themselves, with a tidy sum allotted to the family of President Berdimuhamedow [who to his credit is making some progress reversing the North Korean-like personality cult instituted by the late President Niyazov].

"Last great conflict"...My, we are optimistic aren't we.

The original Great Game played out in Central Asia lasted for most of the 19th century. This one will probably last most of the 21st. But Turkmen gas is being made out to be far more important than it really is.

* From the 2009 BP Statistical Review:

Natural Gas Reserves [in trillions of cubic feet]:

Turkmenistan........................ 94
Russia.................................1576
Iran.................................... 981
Qatar.................................. 904
Kazakhstan.......................... 67
Uzbekistan........................... 62
USA.................................... 237
Canada................................ 57
Norway................................ 104
Australia.............................. 88
World Total..........................6290


World natural gas consumption is just over 100 trillion cubic feet per annum.

So tell me again just how "strategic" Turkmen gas is to Russia? Or Iran? Or the USA? Or Europe? Perhaps to China, because it seems intent on going where no one else will venture to satisfy its apparently "voracious" appetite for natural resources and energy. So what...

I have a close business associate from the GCC who's family keeps a permanent hunting camp in Turkmenistan. He tells me it's one of the few places left on earth that is remote enough and undeveloped enough where one can still hunt with falcons, now that the remote regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan are dangerous, even for Arab Muslims.

How 'white' of him to go falcon hunting in the remote nether regions to reclaim an art and way of hunting that is not in an iota of his blood. With that sardonic and perhaps disrespectful comment- lets not forget that the it was not superior siege engines or engineering that defeated the blue print of the US empire (ROME). It was the unending wars (now euphemistically called-blowback). The goths, the huns , the franks and ad nauseum- its like the as$$hole guy who has the most money in high school -who is 'supposedly' popular and his clique is a bunch of not so rich guys but well to do (Europe). But piss of enuf people and guess what -one day it catches up to you. Right now -we are at about 100 million deaths since the 'discovery' of science by the west (which is now atleast being able to be questioned -since alebra/algoriths/alcohol was stolen from the arabs/ astonomy from the Indians/ and many other things from China)

There is no doubt -period- that the US is far away the most lavish spender of research/development andmilitary inthe world for the last 50 years. But hey -its like blowing your fortune in 10 years instead of a 100! The many attempts of patenting 'intellectual' property. etc are doomed to fail - I mean thnk if the Chinese called gunpowder as intellectual property and had strict licenses and royalties for it.

It may not be 2050 it may be 2150 - but the time is coming. As the saying goes -"Easy come - Easy go" and we all know the US had it easy from day one and they will go down in history as the vastest global empire to burn out -probably with in less than 3 centuries. They will suffer the same fate of Alexander's empire -full of sound and fury -yet signifying nothing. Compare that to Genghis Khan who left 5- hordes -the most memorable for the west -the Golden horde- and spawned generations of rulers across the richest parts of the world. But even he - understood the power of mercy and incorporation and true meritocracy - that is why -his empire lasted via his scions for generations- compare that to the quickly crumbling so-called empire of Alexander.

Winner of battles and conquerer of nations yee may be but the winds of time need not be a hurricane for an empire that has no foundation. See Babylon, Egypt with Dynasties and the Khan -a name misunderstood as being muslim.

What empires -even the re-written and forged histories of Rome and Greece can compete with these.

The die has been cast and the gamble been made. All is on oil and the turn is natural gas. Check your numbers -dollar hegemony will be eroded -as natural gas supplants the previous concept of oil = energy.

BTW GRG - all I am saying is -as the old saying goes -the problem with truth is never supply -only demand.