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  • How they trick us

    Niall Ferguson -another establishmentarian hack -(and probable stooge) wrote of future SS liabilities (the very usual scare the public tactics) and how they would overwhelm the public.

    from Dollars and Sense dot com

    Dear Dr. Dollar:
    In his book Colossus (2004), Niall Ferguson argues that a major problem with Social Security and Medicare is their underfunded liabilities—to the tune of $45 trillion. Ferguson uses a 2003 report by Jagadeesh Gokhale and Kent Smetters to substantiate the seriousness of the issue. Can you comment on the report and Ferguson’s claim?
    —Charles M. LeCrone, Shelbyville, IL


    In Colossus, Niall Ferguson, perhaps the most prolific apologist for the global military adventures of the U.S. government, worries that the United States may not be able to continue to play its role of maintaining order in the world. “Order,” he maintains, “is the necessary precondition for liberty.” (One wonders about the liberty of those peoples whose societies are rent asunder by U.S. occupying forces, to say nothing of those who have died in the process. But leave that aside.)

    Ferguson’s argument is a variation of the idea of “imperial overreach,” by which imperial nations have tried to extend their power too far, placed too great a burden on their ability to finance the operations, thus weakened the economic basis of their power, and gone into decline. But for Ferguson, it is not the cost of foreign operations that “threatens the American with overreach. It is expenditure that is much closer to home.” Here he turns to the Gokhale-Smetters report, “Fiscal and Generational Imbalances” (2003), which, he tells us, shows that it is Social Security and Medicare expenditures that threaten the foundation of U.S. global operations.

    The report purports to show that, given current levels of taxation and obligations, the present value of the future Social Security and Medicare expenditures will exceed revenues by $44.2 trillion dollars (not Ferguson’s $45 trillion, but let’s not quibble over $800 billion). Ferguson claims that this “unfunded liability” will have to be covered by increased taxes or reduced benefits, and he presents it as a very large amount of money. It is, he notes, four times the value of the country’s 2003 annual output. (Present value is the value now of future income or expenditures, discounted to reflect the fact that something in the future is worth less than something now. For example, with a discount rate of 5%, the present value of $1.05 next year is $1.00.)

    As with so much of the misleading arguments about Social Security and Medicare, the Center for Economic and Policy Research has responded effectively to the Gokhale-Smetters report. In a paper titled “The Forty-Four Trillion Dollar Deficit Scare,” Dean Baker and David Rosnick point out that instead of comparing the present value of the future accumulated liability with current output, we should compare it with the present value of future accumulated output, which Gokhale and Smetters estimate at $682 trillion. So the future “unfunded liability” is equal to 6.5% of future output—not trivial but not nearly as scary as “four times the value of the country’s annual output.”

    The gap could therefore be covered were taxes to increase by 6.5% of national output. Ferguson tells us that at present “Americans are scarcely undertaxed.” So it is “fanciful,” he claims, to expect tax increases of sufficient magnitude to handle the problem. Yet, most other high-income countries have much higher overall tax rates than does the United States, without apparent damage to their economic growth and prosperity. While a tax increase this large would certainly be politically problematic, there is no reason to dismiss it as economically outlandish. In any case, with his dismissal of tax increases, Ferguson leads his readers to the only possible solution: cut the benefits.

    As Baker and Rosnick demonstrate, however, the problem does not lie with the programs but with the excessively high and absurdly increasing cost of medical services. It turns out that $36.6 trillion of Gokhale and Smitters’ $44.2 trillion comes form rising Medicare costs, which are driven by the rising cost of medical services. So the problem is the nature of our health care system—can you say “private insurance companies”?—not “excessive” entitlement programs. If the United States established a reasonable health care system, there would be no need for a large tax increase or a Social Security or Medicare cut.

    Finally, whether or not any category of government spending is “excessive” depends on one’s judgment of the worth of the object of that spending. For Ferguson, apparently, social services for the elderly are not worth the money, but there is no limit to the value of the “order” imposed by the U.S. empire.

    Arthur MacEwan is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Massachusetts at Boston and a Dollars & Sense Associate.

  • #2
    Re: How they trick us

    Your done, tapped out, finished............just the "Loose ends" to sort out.

    Bye Bye.

    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How they trick us

      Originally posted by Mega View Post
      Your done, tapped out, finished............just the "Loose ends" to sort out.

      Bye Bye.

      Mike
      What?? Is this a reply?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How they trick us

        Originally posted by iyamwutiam View Post
        What?? Is this a reply?
        I trust that Mega was responding to Niall, not to iyamwutiam .
        Most folks are good; a few aren't.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How they trick us

          Originally posted by Mega View Post
          Your done, tapped out, finished............just the "Loose ends" to sort out.

          Bye Bye.

          Mike

          Exquisitely funny...:p

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How they trick us

            If the U.S. puts in a national sales tax, there would be plenty of money for Social Security and Medicare. If the U.S. puts an end to for-profit private health insurance, the savings would easily pay for the cost of Social Security and Medicare. If the U.S. puts in tort-reform to limit law-suits against medical providers, the cost of SS and Medicare would also be reduced. And if the U.S. economy somehow grows (for example, by having young immigrants move to America) there would be plenty of money for SS and Med.

            As usual, the Republicans have distorted the economic picture in America to make economic programmes started by liberals ( Social Security and Medicare ) look like a failure. The picture is not nearly as bleak as the Republicans would have you believe.
            Last edited by Starving Steve; January 07, 2010, 10:22 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How they trick us

              Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
              I trust that Mega was responding to Niall, not to iyamwutiam .
              He is likely talking about the US. I don't understand all of you guys that think that Mike is so great. As much as Mike wants the Pound to crash and burn, he wishes it equally for America. He is very anti-Yank.
              "...the western financial system has already failed. The failure has just not yet been realized, while the system remains confident that it is still alive." Jesse

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How they trick us

                Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                If the U.S. puts in a national sales tax, there would be plenty of money for Social Security and Medicare. If the U.S. puts an end to for-profit private health insurance, the savings would easily pay for the cost of Social Security and Medicare. If the U.S. puts in tort-reform to limit law-suits against medical providers, the cost of SS and Medicare would also be reduced. And if the U.S. economy somehow grows (for example, by having young immigrants move to America) there would be plenty of money for SS and Med.

                As usual, the Republicans have distorted the economic picture in America to make economic programmes started by liberals ( Social Security and Medicare ) look like a failure. The picture is not nearly as bleak as the Republicans would have you believe.
                if the US puts in a national sales tax it will transfer MORE money to an over-bloated DC bureaucracy that wouldn't know how to save a dime if it's life depended upon it. We would be back where we are in not time flat, WITH a commensurate rise in unemployment along the way as consumers cut back to fund this new tax.

                If the US put an end to for profit HC we would wring scant savings out of the broken HC system as any look at avge publically held HC companies on yahoo would show annual profits last year of about... a whopping 3%. And taking all the executive pay away would barely make a dent in those number either. In addition, if we had a balanced budget amendment and the government did not operate under Ponzi-nomics, all those dollars supposedly in the SocSec & Mediscare HC funds would actually be there instead of all the little IOU's the CONgress has put there over the years.

                If the US fixed tort reform, the DemocRats in congress would lose one of their biggest donor groups, the trial lawyers. So it ain;t gonna happen.

                If the US economy were to somehow grow, it would NOT be off the backs of 'youn immigrant labor' as we already have plenty of this labor floating around, and many of those mexicans are returning home due to a lack of jobs.

                And finally, as to your comments about the RepublicRats distorting those wunnerful social safety nets you seem to like, the reality is that in 1983 there was a commission on reforming SocSec under Reagan no less, and at the time the DemocRats stood in the way of any reform. What is lost in the arguments over SocSec is that it was originally designed as a support system for people over 65 at a time when most people did not live past 45, and it started with 19 payers for eyery payout. Over time they actuarial numbers changed, while the system was burdened with even more outflows thru programs that distributed SocSec funds to the 'needy' well before age 65 without commensurate increases in program tax increases. THAT is not a RepublicRat issue, it is a CONgressional issue.

                Social Security and Medicare ARE failures -- not for what they have done or attempt to do, but like all government programs that never shrink, always grow, and are perennially subject to "the improvers", they have been lovingly bled to death by pols of all stripes.

                SO... stop looking for blame in only one party, and find the fault where it belongs -- political partisanship on BOTH sides that has divided this country up like British soccer fans in the great football game of life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How they trick us

                  Originally posted by rjwjr View Post
                  He is likely talking about the US.
                  Ah - that makes more sense. Thanks.
                  Originally posted by rjwjr View Post
                  I don't understand all of you guys that think that Mike is so great.
                  Eh, I wouldn't say he's great .

                  But I'm glad to have him around.
                  Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How they trick us

                    Originally posted by doom&gloom View Post
                    if the US puts in a national sales tax it will transfer MORE money to an over-bloated DC bureaucracy that wouldn't know how to save a dime if it's life depended upon it. We would be back where we are in not time flat, WITH a commensurate rise in unemployment along the way as consumers cut back to fund this new tax.

                    If the US put an end to for profit HC we would wring scant savings out of the broken HC system as any look at avge publically held HC companies on yahoo would show annual profits last year of about... a whopping 3%. And taking all the executive pay away would barely make a dent in those number either. In addition, if we had a balanced budget amendment and the government did not operate under Ponzi-nomics, all those dollars supposedly in the SocSec & Mediscare HC funds would actually be there instead of all the little IOU's the CONgress has put there over the years.

                    If the US fixed tort reform, the DemocRats in congress would lose one of their biggest donor groups, the trial lawyers. So it ain;t gonna happen.

                    If the US economy were to somehow grow, it would NOT be off the backs of 'youn immigrant labor' as we already have plenty of this labor floating around, and many of those mexicans are returning home due to a lack of jobs.

                    And finally, as to your comments about the RepublicRats distorting those wunnerful social safety nets you seem to like, the reality is that in 1983 there was a commission on reforming SocSec under Reagan no less, and at the time the DemocRats stood in the way of any reform. What is lost in the arguments over SocSec is that it was originally designed as a support system for people over 65 at a time when most people did not live past 45, and it started with 19 payers for eyery payout. Over time they actuarial numbers changed, while the system was burdened with even more outflows thru programs that distributed SocSec funds to the 'needy' well before age 65 without commensurate increases in program tax increases. THAT is not a RepublicRat issue, it is a CONgressional issue.

                    Social Security and Medicare ARE failures -- not for what they have done or attempt to do, but like all government programs that never shrink, always grow, and are perennially subject to "the improvers", they have been lovingly bled to death by pols of all stripes.

                    SO... stop looking for blame in only one party, and find the fault where it belongs -- political partisanship on BOTH sides that has divided this country up like British soccer fans in the great football game of life.
                    An accurate and informative post.

                    Thank you. ;)

                    Comment

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