How To Bring This System Down For Good!

[jtabeb]

Read this on ZH, this WOULD work. So I say go for it!

From this article

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gov...anks-permanent

"
JUST WITHDRAW ALL FAKE PAPER MONEY FROM YOUR BANK, BUY PHYSICAL GOLD, AND STOP PAYING ALL DEBTS.
And they all go away, as the fake Paper Ponzi System we live in evaporates!
Its so easy! No protests, no battles, no blood shed. Just stop playing their stupid game with their stupid fake paper/electronic money!"

Full Disclosure, yes I am, Yes I Am, YES.. I AM!

[ggirod]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

I think there might be a better way. We simply have to amend the Constitution to strip corporations of personhood so they cannot claim the rights of people. It would, in a stroke, deprive corporations of free speech and the subsequent purchase of legislators and return corporations to legal entities that produce things, sell them, and distribute the wealth resulting from them. People would suddenly be the focus of legislators who would have to listen to the voice of the people rather than the voice of corporations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...sonhood_debate

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/arti...porations.html

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...dered-a-person

Does anybody know why this concept is bogus? I can't see any problem with the approach, but I can get fooled by well crafted paranoid delusions, so please, let me know if I have been fooled.

My thought is that if we fixed the personhood of corporations it would immediately solve .... Big Tobacco (declining but still around), Big Food (Frankenfoods and GMO abuses around the globe), and Global Warming Denial (Mobil and others funding pseudoscience to resist the migration from fossil fuels to alternative energy), Wall Street (to get sympathetic bailouts by funding the finance committees and bipartisan majorities in the house and senate to get lots of corporate socialism), and, finally, corporate agricultural Welfare Mommas who collect lots of farm subsidies while voting to deprive real human beings of a safety net they need and deserve.

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

We simply have to amend the Constitution to strip corporations of personhood

Umm, How is that SIMPLER, exactly?!?

[Master Shake]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

I think there might be a better way. We simply have to amend the Constitution to strip corporations of personhood so they cannot claim the rights of people. It would, in a stroke, deprive corporations of free speech and the subsequent purchase of legislators and return corporations to legal entities that produce things, sell them, and distribute the wealth resulting from them. People would suddenly be the focus of legislators who would have to listen to the voice of the people rather than the voice of corporations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...sonhood_debate

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/arti...porations.html

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...dered-a-person

Does anybody know why this concept is bogus? I can't see any problem with the approach, but I can get fooled by well crafted paranoid delusions, so please, let me know if I have been fooled.

My thought is that if we fixed the personhood of corporations it would immediately solve .... Big Tobacco (declining but still around), Big Food (Frankenfoods and GMO abuses around the globe), and Global Warming Denial (Mobil and others funding pseudoscience to resist the migration from fossil fuels to alternative energy), Wall Street (to get sympathetic bailouts by funding the finance committees and bipartisan majorities in the house and senate to get lots of corporate socialism), and, finally, corporate agricultural Welfare Mommas who collect lots of farm subsidies while voting to deprive real human beings of a safety net they need and deserve.

LOL! You're worried about Big Tobacco, Food, etc, but think Big Gov will solve all your problems.

[ggirod]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

LOL! You're worried about Big Tobacco, Food, etc, but think Big Gov will solve all your problems. __________________

Umm, How is that SIMPLER, exactly?!?

Actually, Big Government results from Big Corporate Influence, not people voting their interests and passions. Stripping corporate personhood solves the root cause. It puts "carbon based units" first and corporations second. If we simply quit paying debts, the FIRE folks will simply get a law passed that strips us of all our rights, seizes our possessions, and makes all debts full recourse. Note how FIRE changed the bankruptcy regulations just before the crash. Imagine what they would do in a "revolution" of non compliance. You would be amazed how few "resistors" would need to be punished for the rest to comply and pay up ... even to the point of passing their debts to their young to preserve their standard of living.

[MulaMan]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Yes that would great. I'd settle for Sarbanes-Oxley.

Health care will also help break the oligarchs, most multi-nationals are simply holding companies that drive down labor costs - if you want health care 90% of Americans need to either work for the government or one a few huge coporate entities.

With Health care available outside corporate and government, there will be an economic boom of small business as those with talent will leave corporate in a second - I know thousands of these folks that work at huge firms simply because of health care for thier families.

People who equate good government regulation with big government are retards - thier brains have been captured by big business.

You cannot have a free country of individuals without rule of law, and hence equitable regulation.

De-regulation created FIRE and so re-regulation is the way out.

Fox News will slam ANY re-regulation, no matter how small, as big government liberal pagan tree huggers taking American's rights away - in reality it is the Fox New scumbag anti-Americans, mouth piece of corporate interests and government criminals that have taken American's rights.

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

You are all getting off topic.

Do you want to bring the damn system down or what?

Talk about that, or get your own thread.

[Scot]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

I think there might be a better way. We simply have to amend the Constitution to strip corporations of personhood so they cannot claim the rights of people.

People don't lose rights simply because they come together to act as one legally recognized unit. That goes for Microsoft and Goldman Sachs as much as it does for the AFL-CIO or the AARP. Even the Democratic Party is a corporation.

Now you may argue that business corporations are different because they are for-profit and that speech or other rights used to further profitability shouldn't be protected. But are corporations like the AFL-CIO and AARP not also exercising their rights in an effort to maximize the financial benefits to their members?

I think most of the arguments against corporate personhood are nothing more than a complaint that because some corporations (businesses) have rights, those corporations can't be completely steam-rolled by other corporations (organized labor, organized environmentalists, etc), and that all our 'problems' could be solved if the government (the largest corporation of all) would just make the other side shut-up.

[anniecat]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

IMO a possible fix could be to start a grass roots movement to vote-out-incumbents. If we could persuade 10% of the voters to paticipate it could succeed in scaring the crap out of the politicians. A little fear would go a long way toward getting them to think about the appeasing the voters instead of the corporations. Term limit laws and campaign contribution laws are never going to happen if we wait on the politicians to write them.

[ggirod]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

I think most of the arguments against corporate personhood are nothing more than a complaint that because some corporations (businesses) have rights, those corporations can't be completely steam-rolled by other corporations (organized labor, organized environmentalists, etc), and that all our 'problems' could be solved if the government (the largest corporation of all) would just make the other side shut-up.

So, how do you reconcile the fact that the Supreme Court is considering whether corporations ought to have ANY limits on their contributions to politicians? And, whether a corporation should have more rights than jtabeb to spend money to support a politician? If AARP or AFL/CIO can't exercise the power of their members through the votes/support of their members, then they aren't meaningful in the slightest. If they can exercise their power through their members, then they are probably more powerful than GS that claims to be doing "God's Work" but has few supporters getting the federal dole.

[reallife]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

LOL! You're worried about Big Tobacco, Food, etc, but think Big Gov will solve all your problems.

Master Shake, I don't understand your 'Big Government' statement?? Did you make that up from thin air?

Back to the OP, if we were able to restrict Constitutional Rights to human beings only, as intended by the Framers of the Constitution, most of our problems with Big Government would evaporate immediately. Corporations were granted the same rights as human beings by the US Supreme Court in the early 1820s. This is a radical concept that we have come to accept without question. There is nothing in the US Constitution that grants basic human rights to corporations. Granting corporations the same rights enjoyed by human citizens has resulted in a perversion of our Constitutional system over time.

As I see it, US corporations can live forever, accumulating wealth and power, and eventually exerting far more influence over the Congress and Government that any human citizen could in a normal lifetime. The Framers never envisioned that corporations would live forever and come to be represented in our democracy to a vastly greater extent than any actual human being.

Now, the Corporation has come to manipulate every aspect of human life through control of our employment, home life, health, environment and yes, even our individual liberty and pursuit of happiness. Big Government is only one of the Corporation's tools. The Corporate Media is another. We living human beings have ceded control over our own lives and now are merely consumers and tools of the Corporation. Big Government is a Corporate tool wielded to control the little people like us. :mad::mad:

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

So, how do you reconcile the fact that the Supreme Court is considering whether corporations ought to have ANY limits on their contributions to politicians? And, whether a corporation should have more rights than jtabeb to spend money to support a politician?

Again working within the system to fix it won't work (for all the various that you all provided). But working within the system to use it's own contradictions and fallacies to bring it down, now THAT has a fighting chance in hell of working!

Decentralized, massive, cohesive, Like ANTS pretty much.

You ever step onto a fire ant mound? Well then you know exactly the dynamics I'm talking about.

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Master Shake, I don't understand your 'Big Government' statement?? Did you make that up from thin air?

Back to the OP, if we were able to restrict Constitutional Rights to human beings only, as intended by the Framers of the Constitution, most of our problems with Big Government would evaporate immediately. Corporations were granted the same rights as human beings by the US Supreme Court in the early 1820s. This is a radical concept that we have come to accept without question. There is nothing in the US Constitution that grants basic human rights to corporations. Granting corporations the same rights enjoyed by human citizens has resulted in a perversion of our Constitutional system over time.

As I see it, US corporations can live forever, accumulating wealth and power, and eventually exerting far more influence over the Congress and Government that any human citizen could in a normal lifetime. The Framers never envisioned that corporations would live forever and come to be represented in our democracy to a vastly greater extent than any actual human being.

Now, the Corporation has come to manipulate every aspect of human life through control of our employment, home life, health, environment and yes, even our individual liberty and pursuit of happiness. Big Government is only one of the Corporation's tools. The Corporate Media is another. We living human beings have ceded control over our own lives and now are merely consumers and tools of the Corporation. Big Government is a Corporate tool wielded to control the little people like us. :mad::mad:

If everyone once again reasserts control over their own lives, how can the powers that be fight 90% of their own population?

Try the above, I GUARANTEE it will be more fun than sitting here bitching and complaining. (And who know's, maybe profitable even)

[mmr]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

You can certainly help yourself and your family by swapping fiat for gold, but that won't bring down the system. Eventually the money that you spend buying gold will end up with someone who will just redeposit it in the bank.

As for not paying your debts, the government will just continue to print money via quantitative easing or another method of their choice to offset any cash flow shortfall to the banks.

Keep in mind that the VAST majority of the population has a vested interest in preserving the existing system (i.e., their deposits, investments, pensions, and other fictitious financial constructs that they think will allow them to retire and live on the work of others). They will fight to keep the system in place, even knowing that it is corrupt, because without it, many will not be able to keep themselves alive.

Of course this won't stop the system from ultimately collapsing under its own weight if the overseas suppliers of the energy and resources that we need to survive decide to no longer accept dollars (and we aren't able to coerce them to do so).

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Of course this won't stop the system from ultimately collapsing under its own weight if the overseas suppliers of the energy and resources that we need to survive decide to no longer accept dollars (and we aren't able to coerce them to do so).

Trying to help there too, so I'm leaving the military, and I hope a bunch more folks do as well. Let JPM and GS employees go fight, I'd LOVE to see that!