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  • Beverly Hillbillies told to git


    Beverly Hills High School

    December 21, 2009
    Beverly Hills Schools to Cut Nonresidents

    By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
    BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. — Daniel Kahn has never lived in this city, but he has attended its legendary public schools since the fourth grade. Now in eighth grade, he is vice president of the student council, plays in two school bands and is an A student who has been preparing to tread in his sister’s footsteps at Beverly Hills High School.

    But Daniel will almost certainly be looking for a new place to hang his backpack next fall. The school board here intends to do away with hundreds of slots reserved for nonresident children, most of whom live in nearby neighborhoods of Los Angeles where the homes are nice but the city’s public school system is deeply distressed.

    The students used to be a financial boon for Beverly Hills, bringing millions of dollars in state aid with them. But California’s budget crisis is changing the way schools are financed in many wealthy cities, suddenly turning the out-of-towners into money losers.


    “Membership has its privileges,” said Lisa Korbatov, vice president of the Beverly Hills school board. “But anyone can be a member. I made a choice to spend more to live in a home here when I could have spent less on a bigger home in another area. But I made a choice and sacrificed.”


    Ms. Menna, like several other parents interviewed, said she resented the fact that the Beverly Hills schools were happy to have her children when they brought the district money, but now find them expendable.

    “Our kids brought them the money to put programs together that they did not have before,” she said.

    Beverly Hills has long enjoyed a reputation for schools that mirror the city. But with declining enrollment in past years, the school district opened its doors to outsiders; currently about one in seven of its roughly 4,800 students — or 775 — attend with out-of-district permits.

    The district, like most across the state, had historically been financed by the state based on a formula that pays for each student. The out-of-district students helped fill the classrooms and allow the district to reap extra money ($6,239 per child this year).

    But the higher-than-average property taxes here, combined with deep slashes to the state’s education budget because of the recession — about 18 percent this year alone — have combined to change the formula. Essentially, because the city is collecting more in property taxes designated for education than it would receive from the state for its schools, the city is required to use its tax dollars directly to finance its schools.

    Suddenly, with no state financing in the mix, there is no incentive to fill empty classrooms with children from other cities.

    “I am incredibly compassionate and sympathetic for what is going on here,” said Jake Manaster, a board member. But, he added, “It was very generous of Beverly Hills to take 20 percent of students from the outside.”

    Looked at another way, Ms. Korbatov said, a person mugged in another city would not expect Beverly Hills police officers to respond. “City services,” she said, “be they fire, police, schools, are reserved for residents and their children.”

    But one long-serving board member, Myra Lurie, opposes the plan. “I am seething mad,” Ms. Lurie said. “We invited these kids in, and they have been part of the family and the fabric of our district. People are not well served in my community by looking mean-spirited or elitist.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/ed...?ref=education



  • #2
    Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

    While it's unfortunate, I can't fault the school board for pulling the plug on the out-of-towners. I found the attitude expressed here a bit irritating, though:

    “Membership has its privileges,” said Lisa Korbatov, vice president of the Beverly Hills school board. “But anyone can be a member. I made a choice to spend more to live in a home here when I could have spent less on a bigger home in another area. But I made a choice and sacrificed.”
    Right, anyone can afford to live in Beverly Hills.:rolleyes:

    No really good solution, unfortunately. Well, if the state funded the LA school district better, it wouldn't be an issue, but the state has a bit of a cash flow problem of its own, if I recall...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

      Originally posted by nitroglycol View Post
      While it's unfortunate, I can't fault the school board for pulling the plug on the out-of-towners. I found the attitude expressed here a bit irritating, though:



      Right, anyone can afford to live in Beverly Hills.:rolleyes:



      No really good solution, unfortunately. Well, if the state funded the LA school district better, it wouldn't be an issue, but the state has a bit of a cash flow problem of its own, if I recall...

      The ghettoization of America takes another step forward...this time the ghetto is inside Beverly Hills...:rolleyes:

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

        Originally posted by nitroglycol View Post
        While it's unfortunate, I can't fault the school board for pulling the plug on the out-of-towners. I found the attitude expressed here a bit irritating, though:

        Right, anyone can afford to live in Beverly Hills.:rolleyes:

        No really good solution, unfortunately. Well, if the state funded the LA school district better, it wouldn't be an issue, but the state has a bit of a cash flow problem of its own, if I recall...
        Good Schools are about Involved Parents. Even in Poor Districts there are Kids who do well - WHY??? Parents who are involved and pay attention to the children. School Districts like Beverly Hills (affluent district) have a higher percentage of Parents who value education and keep their children on track. As soon as the myth of throwing Money at Teachers and school districts is dead - we'll be back on Track as a society.

        Its hard to figure out why some of the most expensive Real Estate Areas have the best performing students.....what could it be....................

        My child goes to a parochial school - the keep the costs low, no over paid teachers or administrators, school uniforms, and the kids are learning - happy - well behaved.

        The school budgets are killing many Towns and Cities around the United States. Teachers need to be a paid a decent wage - but, we've over done it and now school budgets consume more Capital than is healthy for our economy to function. It won't be long until the salaries that have been handed to Public School Teachers wipe out State Pension plans - the math just doesn't work.

        The Teachers Union and Education Administrators Union does not want this secret to get out -please don't repeat my comments. ;-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

          when i look at my tax bill, and the teachers salaries which are public records, it seems like the high school is where the problem is. I'm in illinois and the bulk of school funding comes from prop taxes. In my elementary district experienced teachers are make 30 - 40k. which seems reasonable, but in the high school district, teachers are making 80, 90 100 k. with excellent benefits, summer off etc. With the melt down in IT, and finance there are plenty of real smart people out there who could be good teachers. Certification can be a tough requiring going back to school for a long time which costs big $$$, and time.

          I think my high school charges 2000 a year for my tax burden. Pretty steep.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

            Precisely! Can you name any career where you get 10-12 weeks of vacation time - all major holidays- and minor - be home by 3:30-4PM and can make $90,000 - excluding a very specialized jobs that are very unique.

            The problem is that school systems require Lots of teachers and our economic system doesn't generate enough excess cash to over pay teachers - there are just too many needed in a school system.

            The best part is the teacher making $80,000 to $100,000 will load up on extra jobs in their last three years of service. They will coach a Fall sport, a class advisor, and Coach a Spring sport. Assume they are paid $3K- $5K for each extra assignment. When the Defined Pension benefit is determined it is a percentage of the highest three years of pay- these extra assignments raise the base pay for pension determination by $9,000-$15,000 - The State Pension Plan will pay out more to this teacher because of these Extra jobs for the Rest of their life!

            These extra jobs Don't create any additional Revenues to Cover this extra cost - only we dumb voters would allow such a system to evolve.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

              My wife, who has a master's degree in education and teaches severe and profoundly disabled students (honestly I couldn't do it, the level of patience needed is simply beyond my capabilities), brings home a mere $34k a year, divided evenly over 12 months.
              This in one of the 10 best public school systems in our state. Like most, she was furloughed for 8 days this year due to school system funding issues, cutting that pay further. She advises several clubs and after school activities, and receives nada for it besides "thank you" and personal satisfaction from same, as these are volunteer positions. Federal and state mandated recordkeeping, IEP's, alternative assessments, and meetings with parents occupy after-school hours, so she typically works 7am to 5pm daily. She even works through lunch, as her children require feeding and/or personal supervision. Most here wouldn't last two days in her shoes...myself included.

              While there are no doubt egregious examples, it is worth remembering that there are also plenty of examples to illustrate the contrary.

              As a side note more in keeping with the article's general theme, the local school system, which was considered a major asset and draw during the housing boom (bringing people here from nearby cities with crappy public school systems), was forced by budget constraints to "get tough" on those from out of county who were attending here illegally. The county DA even got involved, sending out legal notices regarding the matter and threatening action against those who continued to send their children to schools from out of the service area. This had never happened before in the 40 years I've lived here. In short, generosity in the flush times has necessarily turned to pragmatism in the lean times, not just for Beverly Hills, but no doubt many school systems.
              Last edited by fallout; December 22, 2009, 11:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git - Salary data

                Fallout,
                I agree your wife is sadly not getting the wage that her responsibilities and education deserve.

                The problem is that the bulk of the US Population lives on the West Coast or East Coast - in major Cities dominated by very successful Unions. These pay scales are Sucking cash out of local economies into the Wallets of Teachers/Administrators/Teacher Union Coffers.

                Here is the data for Three major Towns:

                Salary Schedule for New York City Teachers
                http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...edule20083.pdf

                Salary Schedule for City of Boston-Massachusetts
                http://www.btu.org/pdf/Teachers_Yr4.pdf

                Salary Schedule for the City of Chicago
                http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Em...0Page%2015.pdf

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

                  Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                  The ghettoization of America takes another step forward...this time the ghetto is inside Beverly Hills...:rolleyes:
                  give it 20 yrs...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git - Salary data

                    You are forgetting the higher cost of living on the West Coast and the Metros -- See the IRS case in the Seattle Metro Area - $10 an hour with 2 kids? IRS pounces

                    "I asked the IRS lady straight upfront — 'I don't have anything, why are you auditing me?' " Porcaro recalled. "I said, 'Why me, when I don't own a home, a business, a car?' "

                    The answer stunned both Porcaro and the private tax specialist her dad had gotten to help her.

                    "They showed us a spreadsheet of incomes in the Seattle area," says Dante Driver, an accountant at Seattle's G.A. Michael and Co. "The auditor said, 'You made eighteen thousand, and our data show a family of three needs at least thirty-six thousand to get by in Seattle."

                    "They thought she must have unreported income. That she was hiding something. Basically they were auditing her for not making enough money."
                    Given the cost of living in those cities, I would say that the teachers are underpaid -- just looking at the pays and the qualifications.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

                      When we finally get rid of the school administrators and senior teachers, we would be well on our way to changing the school curriculum in America. It is the educrats at the top of the teaching profession rhat are killing any change in the schools, including changes in the school curriculum.

                      Needless to say, divergent-thinking is discouraged in America's public schools. Teachers with new ideas and new approaches are seen as risks to the system, incapable, slow, unworthy, and unprofessional. And students with divergent ideas are shunned as well.

                      After 150 years of phonics crap, English-only, American nationalism, penmanship, white history, Constitution worship, long-division drills, and teaching to standardized timed-tests, the American school system is an insult to intelligence, and at best, a baby-sitting service.

                      About all that can be said positive for the public schools in America is that they are a really fun place to work in. The kids make teaching enjoyable and hilarious, despite the school administrators and rigid school system.

                      Let me end this blog with a personal experience: One day whilst substitute teaching at Gilroy High School in California, I had to attend a school assembly with kids. And like many school assemblies, it was a brain-washing session about "love of country" and "appreciation for its so-called freedoms". And of course, no-one challenged the speaker. Kids were, as always, to sit politely and take it all in.

                      I got so fed-up that I raised a few questions for the kids to hear and for the speaker to respond to: "If America is so free, why are two million people in prisons in America? Why can't the U.S. change? Why are so many things illegal? Why isn't there healthcare for everyone, as a national right? Why isn't there a real right to privacy in the the Constitution? Why are people tortured and executed in American prisons? Why is California all but ignored in the U.S. Senate? Why the constant wars and bloated defence-spending? Why aren't we being taught in Spanish in the public schools? Why isn't there even the basic linguistic freedom to speak Spanish? Why the English-only, even in California, even in a state that is half Spanish-speaking?"

                      Needless to say, the kids got up and applauded and cheered wildly. And the flag-worshipping speaker was in shock.

                      After that day, I was shunned at the Gilroy School District. I was considered a trouble-maker and unprofessional. My teaching days were over for that district......But that is how the U.S. public school system works. No-one can speak-up or change anything, so nothing can ever change.
                      Last edited by Starving Steve; December 22, 2009, 09:16 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

                        Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                        When we finally get rid of the school administrators and senior teachers, we would be well on our way to changing the school curriculum in America. It is the educrats at the top of the teaching profession rhat are killing any change in the schools, including changes in the school curriculum.

                        Needless to say, divergent-thinking is discouraged in America's public schools. Teachers with new ideas and new approaches are seen as risks to the system, incapable, slow, unworthy, and unprofessional. And students with divergent ideas are shunned as well.

                        After 150 years of phonics crap, English-only, American nationalism, penmanship, white history, Constitution worship, long-division drills, and teaching to standardized timed-tests, the American school system is an insult to intelligence, and at best, a baby-sitting service.

                        About all that can be said positive for the public schools in America is that they are a really fun place to work in. The kids make teaching enjoyable and hilarious, despite the school administrators and rigid school system.

                        Let me end this blog with a personal experience: One day whilst substitute teaching at Gilroy High School in California, I had to attend a school assembly with kids. And like many school assemblies, it was a brain-washing session about "love of country" and "appreciation for its so-called freedoms". And of course, no-one challenged the speaker. Kids were, as always, to sit politely and take it all in.

                        I got so fed-up that I raised a few questions for the kids to hear and for the speaker to respond to: "If America is so free, why are two million people in prisons in America? Why can't the U.S. change? Why are so many things illegal? Why isn't there healthcare for everyone, as a national right? Why isn't there a real right to privacy in the the Constitution? Why are people tortured and executed in American prisons? Why is California all but ignored in the U.S. Senate? Why the constant wars and bloated defence-spending? Why aren't we being taught in Spanish in the public schools? Why isn't there even the basic linguistic freedom to speak Spanish? Why the English-only, even in California, even in a state that is half Spanish-speaking?"

                        Needless to say, the kids got up and applauded and cheered wildly. And the flag-worshipping speaker was in shock.

                        After that day, I was shunned at the Gilroy School District. I was considered a trouble-maker and unprofessional. My teaching days were over for that district......But that is how the U.S. public school system works. No-one can speak-up or change anything, so nothing can ever change.
                        Dear Steve:
                        Sorry to hear about the reaction of the district towards your 'open questions'. However- whether in a pivate corporation or government one -freedom of speech is one of the first thing a pragmatist who wishes a career gives up -till he has tenure, a good lawyer and a very strong case.

                        You give up a lot more as well - like privacy.

                        Teaching is a well paid profession for the amount of work that goes into it -I mean people forget they only work 180 days a year and have more holidays than any other government employee, as well as top of the line benefits.

                        What I have found teaching in such schools -is the anxiety when faced with questions relating to subject matter -particularly science and math. In the suburbs -they are better. However -I often see that in the hiring process -more emphasis is put on 'how' they teach -rather than if they know their subject and in the main -the primary job is to maintain order.

                        These problems are often minimized by teachers who have practical experience with their subject and so can make them of 'use' to the students.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

                          Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                          I got so fed-up that I raised a few questions for the kids to hear and for the speaker to respond to: "If America is so free, why are two million people in prisons in America? Why can't the U.S. change? Why are so many things illegal? Why isn't there healthcare for everyone, as a national right? Why isn't there a real right to privacy in the the Constitution? Why are people tortured and executed in American prisons? Why is California all but ignored in the U.S. Senate? Why the constant wars and bloated defence-spending? Why aren't we being taught in Spanish in the public schools? Why isn't there even the basic linguistic freedom to speak Spanish? Why the English-only, even in California, even in a state that is half Spanish-speaking?"

                          Needless to say, the kids got up and applauded and cheered wildly. And the flag-worshipping speaker was in shock.
                          I will not address your other points, with which I mostly agree, but I will address the issue of teaching classes in Spanish in a publicly-funded schooling system. I am vehemently opposed to having classes taught in Spanish in the United States. The United States was founded by English-speaking peoples and established as an English-speaking republic. Every immigrant group that has ever come to the United States (with one seeming, glaring exception) has learned to communicate in English and integrate into the framework of the U.S. political, cultural, and legal system. Every immigrant group since the founding of the United States has come here with the full knowledge that the U.S. is an English-speaking country and accepted it.

                          It is an unfair burden and an insult to both native English speakers and English-speaking immigrants to have to pay for the additional costs of supporting Spanish-language renditions of services for people who refuse to make an earnest effort to integrate into American society. Those proposing that U.S. public schools teach their classes using Spanish will find that no other non-Spanish-speaking country on the face of the planet will even consider such an idea.

                          For what it's worth, I have no quarrels with Spanish (or any other language) being taught as a foreign language and am of the opinion that most Americans would derive some benefit if they had some exposure to a foreign language. Likewise, if a privately-funded school wishes to teach its classes in a language other than English, I have absolutely no complaints. However, I draw the line at being forced to subsidize, either through taxes or hidden fees, a class of people who refuse to make any effort to integrate and seem intent on balkanizing the U.S.

                          Finally, if we allow our public schools to teach in Spanish, does it become necessary to create a Spanish version of the SAT or do we wait for the inevitable whining about how the SAT is an unfair exam because it is in a "foreign" language, English? What if other groups of people decide they do not want to speak English and would prefer that public schools be taught in their native tongues? If the U.S. is going to teach classes in a language other than English, why Spanish? If we believe what some economists project about the 21st century being the century of China, why not Chinese?

                          The de facto official language of the U.S. is English. I think it is time to make English the de jure official language of the U.S.

                          After that day, I was shunned at the Gilroy School District. I was considered a trouble-maker and unprofessional. My teaching days were over for that district......But that is how the U.S. public school system works. No-one can speak-up or change anything, so nothing can ever change.
                          When it comes to the language spoken in U.S. public schools, I hope that it stays English and never does change so long as the U.S. exists as a sovereign nation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git

                            Originally posted by Milton Kuo View Post
                            I will not address your other points, with which I mostly agree, but I will address the issue of teaching classes in Spanish in a publicly-funded schooling system. I am vehemently opposed to having classes taught in Spanish in the United States. The United States was founded by English-speaking peoples and established as an English-speaking republic. Every immigrant group that has ever come to the United States (with one seeming, glaring exception) has learned to communicate in English and integrate into the framework of the U.S. political, cultural, and legal system. Every immigrant group since the founding of the United States has come here with the full knowledge that the U.S. is an English-speaking country and accepted it.

                            It is an unfair burden and an insult to both native English speakers and English-speaking immigrants to have to pay for the additional costs of supporting Spanish-language renditions of services for people who refuse to make an earnest effort to integrate into American society. Those proposing that U.S. public schools teach their classes using Spanish will find that no other non-Spanish-speaking country on the face of the planet will even consider such an idea.

                            For what it's worth, I have no quarrels with Spanish (or any other language) being taught as a foreign language and am of the opinion that most Americans would derive some benefit if they had some exposure to a foreign language. Likewise, if a privately-funded school wishes to teach its classes in a language other than English, I have absolutely no complaints. However, I draw the line at being forced to subsidize, either through taxes or hidden fees, a class of people who refuse to make any effort to integrate and seem intent on balkanizing the U.S.

                            Finally, if we allow our public schools to teach in Spanish, does it become necessary to create a Spanish version of the SAT or do we wait for the inevitable whining about how the SAT is an unfair exam because it is in a "foreign" language, English? What if other groups of people decide they do not want to speak English and would prefer that public schools be taught in their native tongues? If the U.S. is going to teach classes in a language other than English, why Spanish? If we believe what some economists project about the 21st century being the century of China, why not Chinese?

                            The de facto official language of the U.S. is English. I think it is time to make English the de jure official language of the U.S.

                            When it comes to the language spoken in U.S. public schools, I hope that it stays English and never does change so long as the U.S. exists as a sovereign nation.
                            You do know that in Wisconsin -they taught in Swedish for decades, and also what is wrong with foreign languages? Its ok to study Latin and preen about or French/German -but somehow -Spanish is inordinately offensive-when it is a Romance language and can be a very helpful doorway to Italian and French.

                            I just don't get it -!

                            I would worry about why Public funds fund so many private schools and also why public infra-structure (public health nurses) are required to service them -since many pay not taxes?!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Beverly Hillbillies told to git - Salary data

                              Here are the per pupil spending by state adjusted by state CPI -- of course all of this spending does not necessarily go to the teachers.

                              Sources: US Census Bureau and MERIC
                              State
                              Per Pupil Spending CPI Per Pupil Spending CPI Adj





                              Wyoming
                              13,217 100.6 13,138
                              New York
                              15,981 125.8 12,704
                              New Jersey
                              15,691 127.4 12,316
                              Delaware
                              11,829 101.9 11,608
                              Vermont
                              13,471 119.1 11,311
                              Pennsylvania
                              11,098 100.8 11,010
                              Massachusetts
                              12,738 118.7 10,731
                              Wisconsin
                              10,267 96.4 10,651
                              Rhode Island
                              12,612 119.4 10,563
                              Ohio
                              9,799 93.5 10,480
                              Connecticut
                              12,979 125.3 10,359
                              District of Columbia
                              14,324 138.9 10,313
                              Virginia
                              10,210 99.6 10,251
                              West Virginia
                              9,611 93.9 10,235
                              Michigan
                              9,912 96.9 10,229
                              Nebraska
                              9,141 90.9 10,057
                              Georgia
                              9,127 91 10,030
                              Maine
                              11,387 114.7 9,928
                              Illinois
                              9,555 96.7 9,881
                              Kansas
                              8,988 91.5 9,823
                              Indiana
                              8,938 92.3 9,684
                              Alaska
                              12,300 128.3 9,587
                              North Dakota
                              9,022 95.1 9,486
                              Iowa
                              8,769 93.6 9,368
                              Missouri
                              8,529 91.2 9,352
                              Minnesota
                              9,539 102.8 9,280
                              Maryland
                              11,724 126.4 9,275
                              Louisiana
                              8,928 96.9 9,214
                              Arkansas
                              8,284 90.1 9,194
                              Kentucky
                              8,309 90.9 9,141
                              Alabama
                              8,391 92 9,120
                              New Hampshire
                              10,723 118 9,087
                              South Carolina
                              8,533 97.1 8,788
                              Montana
                              9,078 103.9 8,737
                              South Dakota
                              7,944 91.3 8,701
                              New Mexico
                              8,635 100 8,635
                              Texas
                              7,818 90.9 8,601
                              Florida
                              8,514 101.5 8,388
                              Oklahoma
                              7,420 88.5 8,384
                              North Carolina
                              7,883 96.9 8,136
                              Mississipp
                              7,473 92.8 8,053
                              Tennessee
                              7,113 88.8 8,010
                              Washington
                              8,377 104.6 8,009
                              Oregon
                              9,000 114.3 7,874
                              Colorado
                              8,167 105.1 7,770
                              Nevada
                              7,993 106.4 7,512
                              Idaho
                              6,625 92.3 7,178
                              Arizona
                              7,196 105.2 6,841
                              California
                              9,152 135 6,780
                              Hawaii
                              11,060 165.3 6,691
                              Utah
                              5,683 96.9 5,865
                              Last edited by Rajiv; December 23, 2009, 01:01 AM.

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