Chick Magnet?

[mesyn191]

Re: Chick Magnet?

You beat me to it I was just going to mention this company as well... I was able to meet with them... They are hyped about their product.... Very determined team, i just wonder how quickly it will catch on... It seems like it could work.... Its essentially a disruptive technology....

AFAIK no cars are being built that will take advantage of their method, nor have I heard of any cars that plan on using it either. It also introduces a new wrinkle, you won't actually own the batteries in your car, but you will have to pay for them on top of the recharge either through increased recharge costs or the sticker price of the car itself when you go to buy.

IMO all the current battery tech isn't good enough yet for mass produced electric cars. We really need something like cheap high storage capacity super capacitors for pure electric vehicles to take off. We're probably years away from having them though, and even then it'll take years for the prices on them to go down. You probably won't really see car sales on electrics pick up until they get sub $20K, sub $15K would be even better. Even with gas prices of $5+/gal. most people simply can't afford to spend much more, in the US that is.

[c1ue]

Re: Chick Magnet?

c1ue, you've got me worried. Buried in your post is seemingly a matter-of-fact acceptance of carbon credits :eek:
I'm not there yet :mad:

I don't accept them, I merely put up the post to demonstrate the fundamental problem with the entire concept.

As I've noted before - the relationship between the plenary indulgence and the carbon credit is very strong.

[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Let's not forget the price tag of this vehicle: $85,000 to $120,000...

At that price I think if you tow one behind your Monaco Coach it should qualify as one big carbon credit...:cool:

[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

I still want to know how these all electric cars generate the heat to defrost the windscreen and keep your toes from getting frostbitten as you're cruising east of Fargo in the dead of winter. Doesn't an electric element heater use a lot of power, thus compromising the range, thereby necessitating an even more intensive search for that elusive RV park plug-in? No wonder it's going to take 19 days.

As a cross country vehicle these cars seem perfect for the forcibly early retired and the unemployed. They are the only one's that don't have to get anywhere in a hurry, and besides retired folks probably know where all the really great chick magnet RV parks are...:cool: I can't wait for the day I see one being towed behind a 44-foot Monaco Coach. Only in America...

My hopes of seeing one of these things being towed behind a Monaco Coach appear to have been dashed...

Tesla Roadster...RIP.

Can't wait for the film..."Who Killed The Electric Chick Magnet?"

Tesla to stop selling electric sports car next year

It sounds like the initial public offering of electric-car maker Tesla is already being greeted with skepticism, but some of the fine print about its plans may give potential investors even greater cause for concern.

A reading of the fine print by Wired's Autopia blog uncovers some disturbing product-planning news. To wit, the company's only product, the first true freeway-capable, mass-produced electric car of the modern age, will go bye-bye next year. From Autopia:

"We do not plan to sell our current generation Tesla Roadster after 2011 due to planned tooling changes at a supplier for the Tesla Roadster," the company wrote in the filing. The Roadster is built by Lotus, so presumably Tesla is talking about changes at the British automaker's factory in Hethel, England, but we can't confirm that because Tesla spokesman Ricardo Reyes declined to comment.

That will leave the fledging automaker putting all its marbles on getting its electric sedan, the Model S, out the door in 2012. Tesla, of all companies, should know something about the delays and unexpected headaches that come with launching a product. The roadster went through an obstacle course of trouble before it came out. Thus, 2012 could become 2013 or 2014 -- with no revenue coming in the door. Again, from Autopia:

"As a result, we anticipate that we may generate limited, if any, revenue from selling electric vehicles after 2011 until the launch of the planned Model S," the company says in the SEC filing. That may not be a problem if S production starts on plan and goes off without a hitch, but if Tesla hits any snags, things could get ugly fast — a point it concedes in the filing.
"The launch of the Model S could be delayed for a number of reasons and any such delays may be significant and would extend the period in which we would generate limited, if any, revenues from sales of our electric vehicles."

Of course, it doesn't hurt that Tesla obtained a $465 million loan from the Energy Department to build the Model S and is shopping for factory space in Southern California. The only ones happy about all of this: The 1,000 or so Tesla Roadster owners. Suddenly, their collectible is destined to become even more rare.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Chick Magnet?

AFAIK no cars are being built that will take advantage of their method, nor have I heard of any cars that plan on using it either. It also introduces a new wrinkle, you won't actually own the batteries in your car, but you will have to pay for them on top of the recharge either through increased recharge costs or the sticker price of the car itself when you go to buy.

IMO all the current battery tech isn't good enough yet for mass produced electric cars. We really need something like cheap high storage capacity super capacitors for pure electric vehicles to take off. We're probably years away from having them though, and even then it'll take years for the prices on them to go down. You probably won't really see car sales on electrics pick up until they get sub $20K, sub $15K would be even better. Even with gas prices of $5+/gal. most people simply can't afford to spend much more, in the US that is.

Ah, come on - it's just like changing out the propane tank for your home BBQ grill!

Seriously - it is a very good idea, that will take a long time to implement but it is the way to implement the electric car.

It also will allow the waste management of batteries after their useful life is gone to benefit from economies of scale!

[mesyn191]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Those propane tanks are cheap, and they're easy to pick up and move around too. Most of those electric car battery packs tend to cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars and weigh hundreds of pounds.

I don't mean to be a spoil sport but there really is a world of difference between the 2.

Waste management could be done effectively and cheaply in any number of ways too. For instance your car repair shops would just treat the batteries the same way they do with used oil. They'd remove the old one and slap a new one in, then they'd store the old one until the pick up truck comes around at the end of the week/month. They're already set up to move around engines and transmissions which can easily weigh as much as a battery pack, so you'd be making use of existing equip. and such.

Much simpler, cheaper, and quicker to do than having to build whole new battery switching stations.

[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

My hopes of seeing one of these things being towed behind a Monaco Coach appear to have been dashed...

Tesla Roadster...RIP.

Can't wait for the film..."Who Killed The Electric Chick Magnet?"

Tesla to stop selling electric sports car next year

It sounds like the initial public offering of electric-car maker Tesla is already being greeted with skepticism, but some of the fine print about its plans may give potential investors even greater cause for concern.

A reading of the fine print by Wired's Autopia blog uncovers some disturbing product-planning news. To wit, the company's only product, the first true freeway-capable, mass-produced electric car of the modern age, will go bye-bye next year. From Autopia:

"We do not plan to sell our current generation Tesla Roadster after 2011 due to planned tooling changes at a supplier for the Tesla Roadster," the company wrote in the filing. The Roadster is built by Lotus, so presumably Tesla is talking about changes at the British automaker's factory in Hethel, England, but we can't confirm that because Tesla spokesman Ricardo Reyes declined to comment.

That will leave the fledging automaker putting all its marbles on getting its electric sedan, the Model S, out the door in 2012. Tesla, of all companies, should know something about the delays and unexpected headaches that come with launching a product. The roadster went through an obstacle course of trouble before it came out. Thus, 2012 could become 2013 or 2014 -- with no revenue coming in the door. Again, from Autopia:

"As a result, we anticipate that we may generate limited, if any, revenue from selling electric vehicles after 2011 until the launch of the planned Model S," the company says in the SEC filing. That may not be a problem if S production starts on plan and goes off without a hitch, but if Tesla hits any snags, things could get ugly fast — a point it concedes in the filing.
"The launch of the Model S could be delayed for a number of reasons and any such delays may be significant and would extend the period in which we would generate limited, if any, revenues from sales of our electric vehicles."

Of course, it doesn't hurt that Tesla obtained a $465 million loan from the Energy Department to build the Model S and is shopping for factory space in Southern California. The only ones happy about all of this: The 1,000 or so Tesla Roadster owners. Suddenly, their collectible is destined to become even more rare.

Looks like the chick magnet has had a reprieve...anybody looking for a lipstick red exterior?

From the San Francisco Chronicle:

Tesla to keep rolling out Roadsters

David R. Baker, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 16, 2010

After warning potential investors this year that it might have to stop selling its electric sports car in 2011, Tesla Motors reversed course over the weekend and reported that it will continue offering its Roadster into 2012.

The move eliminates a possible sales gap that could have complicated Tesla's stock market debut and helped the company's rivals...

..."People will be too nervous to invest in the company if you aren't selling your most visible product," said John O'Dell, a senior editor at the Edmunds.com auto information Web site. "You don't want to do that, unless you want to come out as a penny stock."

A hiatus in sales, O'Dell said, also would have given an opening to competitors such as Fisker Automotive, which plans to begin production of a luxury, plug-in hybrid car late this year.

[Rajiv]

Re: Chick Magnet?

I wonder if the news of the new Li battery with 10 times the capacity may have had something to do with it.

Air-fuelled Battery Could Last Up to 10 Times Longer

[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

I wonder if the news of the new Li battery with 10 times the capacity may have had something to do with it.

Air-fuelled Battery Could Last Up to 10 Times Longer

Could be. Could also be the fact that any company that stops providing any product for 2 years is in danger of self-created extinction at the hands of its competitors...

Nissan gets 56K pre-orders for Leaf EV, challenges Tesla

March 12, 2010

Nissan says it has more than 56,000 pre-orders for the Leaf, its fully-electric model set to be released to the mass market in 2012. Just last November, the Nissan-led Electrification Coalition lobbied the U.S. government to fund electric vehicle projects. CEO Carlos Ghosn plans to sell the Leaf to fleet first to operators like taxi companies and governments as well. By 2013, Nissan will build a half million Leaf vehicles globally, he told BusinessWeek.





For the first time, it looks like Tesla Motors should be worried. Nissan’s manufacturing and buying power are already in place. The company also plans to have it’s EV on the market two years before Tesla brings its more affordable Model S to market. The Leaf will cost around $25,000, while the Model S will be priced over $50,000. When the Leaf is released, it will be in a class of one: the entry-priced electric, if you will. And in the luxury segment, Tesla will soon have the likes of Audi to contend with...

...Of course, Nissan could drive down pricing as production scales up. Tesla (the Roadster’s chassis is built by Lotus) and Think (the City built by Valmet) are both specialty cars built at a low volume. Boutique cars, novelties...

...Nissan might be able to mass produce electric cars and make them marketable to those looking for a regular car — not an icon...

...What is uncertain is whether pure EVs are ready to compete with hybrids like the Volt, Prius or Fusion.

[Rajiv]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Yes - definitely -- I also think that the Li Air battery is five years away -- two years if a crash program to produce it is adopted

Then there is this version of the lead acid battery - Firefly Energy producing the Oasis Battery

Microcell foam technology that's changing the rules of the road.

Developed by scientists at Firefly Energy, microcell foam is a material that's revolutionizing the battery industry. Compared to lead plates - one of the main components of most conventional truck batteries – patented Microcell technology delivers longer service life, increased energy efficiency and better performance under extreme conditions. That's why we used it to create our revolutionary Oasis Group 31 battery. Oasis' unique design resists sulfation and corrosion (two of the primary causes of failure in lead-acid batteries), while dramatically increasing the surface area within the battery, resulting in greater energy capacity, faster recharges, and deeper discharge capability...

Watch Video | Full Brochure | Brochure Supplement | Spec Sheet | Press Release | Trucking Industry White Paper |

[Rajiv]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Well Firefly seems to have met the great recession, and become roadkill.

Firefly CEO: Bankruptcy was only option

PEORIA —

The co-founder and CEO of Firefly Energy Inc., the high-tech battery firm that closed last week, said every possibility was reviewed before the company called it quits.

"Our board looked at every possible option that we had out there - we have for a number of months - and Chapter 7 (bankruptcy) was the right selection," said Ed Williams in a telephone interview on Tuesday.

Chapter 7 bankruptcy procedures involve the liquidation of assets, while Chapter 11 involves reorganization. "Chapter 7 essentially means the court takes control of assets," he said.

Williams said National City Bank, the city of Peoria and Peoria County would have first priority as creditors. National City Bank provided Firefly with a $6 million loan - $4 million for equipment, $2 million for working capital - in 2007 with the city and county as partners.

"We really did the best we could as a pre-revenue, pre-product company," said Williams, referring to Firefly's efforts to move from a high-tech Caterpillar Inc. spin-off in 2003 to a company that sought to develop its own product, a lightweight lead acid battery with greater power and life than existing lead acid batteries.

The recession hurt Firefly in two ways, he said. "You had the complete compression of venture capital funds. In the last couple of years, they dropped off to 1997 levels."

The Oasis battery Firefly developed to compete in the nation's truck market ran head-on into the recession, he said. "When the economic bottom dropped out of the battery market, you had excess supply and prices dropped," said Williams.

That meant a small company like Firefly, which had to charge a premium price for its long-life battery, faced a market where prices dropped 30 to 40 percent, he said. "It didn't make it completely impossible, but it was quite difficult to compete," he said.

The company received another blow when it was unable to procure any of the $2 billion in stimulus funds the federal government awarded for battery research last year, he said.
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[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Well Firefly seems to have met the great recession, and become roadkill.

Firefly CEO: Bankruptcy was only option

This will be the fate of the boutique electric car manufacturers as well.

A few people on this site disparaged the quality of General Motors vehicles as GM was going through its richly deserved [for other reasons] bankruptcy process last year. What most don't realize is just how complex a modern automobile really is, and how utterly impossible it is for small, undercapitalized start-up auto manufacturers to design, manufacture and market a vehicle that meets the minimum expectations of buyers and minimum standards of safety and other regulators.

Tesla, and the other start-ups like it, have a rather low survival prognosis trying to compete against any of the major car manufacturers, with their experience, diversity of internal capabilities and other resources. Unfortunately pure elecric cars will remain a fringe product with a miniscule market share for years, likely decades, to come.

Anyone who thinks otherwise need only consider how miniscule the market share of the Toyota Prius commands after 13 years on sale in Japan and nearly a decade in North America, its two biggest markets. Unlike pure electric cars, hybrids like the Prius have the considerable advantage of not requiring any change to the support infrastructure and fuel distribution systems already in place.

[Rajiv]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Access to the rich and powerful also has much to do with whether the company survives.

Tesla got a fair amount of stimulus money -- while Firefly did not. Firefly's technology would have helped a lot over the intermediate time frame -- as a bridging technology -- but I guess it did not find any champions in the DOE -- and of course fund raising in the US is currently in the absolute pits

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Chick Magnet?

What most don't realize is just how complex a modern automobile really is.

Went shopping for a new truck here in Thailand a couple of years ago. (Ended up buying a used vehicle.) A new truck with crank windows was over two thousand US dollars cheaper than one with electric windows.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a new beetle.

[GRG55]

Re: Chick Magnet?

Went shopping for a new truck here in Thailand a couple of years ago. (Ended up buying a used vehicle.) A new truck with crank windows was over two thousand US dollars cheaper than one with electric windows...

What else didn't it have?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a new beetle.

There is. It's called the Fiat 500...;)

Sex on wheels: British women vote 'retro' Fiat 500 Britain's sexiest car

Last updated at 9:31 AM on 09th September 2008


Forget the obvious in-your-face sex appeal of growling Ferraris and Lamborghinis.


The car that REALLY turns a girl's head and heart is a perky little Italian retro super-mini, the Fiat 500, which costs a fraction of the price of a supercar costing up to 27 times more.

The small but perfectly formed Fiat 500 costs from just £8,100 - compared to £217,000 for a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti or £212,500 for a Lamborghini Murcielago.



But this dinky little Italian job came top of a poll of the 'sexiest' vehicles by womens' car-buying website evecars.com.


The cute Fiat 500 is described as 'great-looking' inside and out while being perfect for a city shopping trip, weekend in the country or doing the school run in style.

Significantly Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo helped launch the Fiat 500 in Italy last year. And 13,000 have been sold in the UK since it was launched in January...

...That includes 12 body colours, 8 sticker kits, even the key fobs have 9 variants of click-on covers...


Iconic: The legendary car was designed in 1957


...The Fiat 500 is available with a choice of three frugal, ultra-low emissions, engines: 69 brake horse-power 1.2-litre and 100 bhp 1.4-litre petrol, or 75 brake horse power, 1.3-litre MultiJet turbodiesel. It comes in three different trim levels – Pop, Sport and Lounge...