Public sector salary vs Private sector

[MulaMan]

In America the average government salary is ~75K while in the private sector it is ~45K. In the UK the difference is even greater.

As I've stated many times - the problem in America and the UK is private sector wages. The middle class has been destroyed by globalization.

Reminds me of the U.S.S.R - you where either a "party member" or good luck finding work, getting a home, ect..

[reallife]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

This is an example of statistics gone awry. The average govt worker who is making so much more money per year is not doing a job directly comparable to the average American worker. Apples vs. oranges. That being said, the benefits, especially retirement benefits, of govt workers are far greater than similar benefits available to non-govt workers.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

In America the average government salary is ~75K while in the private sector it is ~45K. In the UK the difference is even greater.

As I've stated many times - the problem in America and the UK is private sector wages. The middle class has been destroyed by globalization.

Reminds me of the U.S.S.R - you where either a "party member" or good luck finding work, getting a home, ect..

You may want to look at this article:

For feds, more get 6-figure salaries
Average pay $30,000 over private sector
By Dennis Cauchon
USA TODAY

The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.

Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.

Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.

The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.

...

From here.

[Ghent12]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

My Navy-side adviser, a Lieutenant (O-3, which all but the most incompetent officers make after four years in) found it ironic that as he pursued his MBA degree he was already earning over twice what the entry-level will be for his peers in his classes.

Although that will very likely continue to decline, as retention and sign-up bonuses are reduced as the economy continues to spin its wheels.

This is an example of statistics gone awry. The average govt worker who is making so much more money per year is not doing a job directly comparable to the average American worker. Apples vs. oranges. That being said, the benefits, especially retirement benefits, of govt workers are far greater than similar benefits available to non-govt workers.

Couldn't be more true in some cases, although some jobs are exactly parallel, such as secretarial positions. Of course, as far as military work is concerned, I think it is safe to say that the only harder job for most would be owning your own businesses. There are a few cushy military jobs, but those are the exception that proves the rule.

[ddn3f]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

I can only speak for the my experiences in the DC area with the DOD. The contractors still make more than the same equivalent government employees. Where I am at, for every government employee, there are at least 2 contractors. But since everyone is on the government's dole, I am not so sure that I would consider government contracting the real "private" sector.

But the government is trying to catch up with the contractors to attract the younger folks. I am not sure if anyone knows the GS scale, but where I am at, a young person becomes a GS-13 equivalent after 3.5 years. I have personally met 28/29 year old GS-14 equivalent. If you look at the pay that the GS-13s and GS-14s make, just consider that the contractors are paid more than that. If I am good, I will be a GS-14 before I hit 30.

There is one great benefit to being a government employee over a contractor, and that is when the money gets cut, then contractors are the first to go. I am just waiting to see if or when that happens. EJ says around 2013.

[flintlock]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

Somehow I doubt the "average federal government worker" is a highly skilled defense specialist or any other particularly highly skilled position for that matter.

Reminds me of the U.S.S.R - you where either a "party member" or good luck finding work, getting a home, ect..

I made the same analogy in another post. Isn't it funny how history repeats itself? Soon it will not be what you know, but rather "who" you know in terms of getting that cushy government job. It wasn't such a problem when government made up a small percentage of the economy. But now, with the bloat, we will all be paying for it big time.

And the kicker is, all this inefficiency only makes the US less competitive globally. So higher taxes to pay for bloated government means an ever shrinking private sector. The secret to any chance of the US pulling out of this mess would be lower taxes to attract business, not higher taxes to employ workers at make work jobs while driving business overseas. Everyone needs to tighten their belts. That includes government.

[WDCRob]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

I'm not govt, but we use a parallel pay scale.

If I left my current position and went to the private sector in a position with similar responsibility I'd likely increase my salary and benefits anywhere from $25-50k. That's true for most professionals in government as well. Lawyers, managers, C-levels and etc.

[*T*]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

I'm not govt, but we use a parallel pay scale.

If I left my current position and went to the private sector in a position with similar responsibility I'd likely increase my salary and benefits anywhere from $25-50k. That's true for most professionals in government as well. Lawyers, managers, C-levels and etc.

Me also (UK engineering research). Especially if I went back into banking, then there's no comparison.
You need to keep other variables constant to make the comparison.

[BK]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

WDCRob -
Can you provide some more detail- on your benefits?????? - doing all the Math to calculate REAL WAGES - the benefits are worth lots and lots of Dollars. Most Private Sector people are seeing Holidays vanish one - by -one along with Defined Pension plans of yesterday.
$25K- $50K differential vanishes if you do all the math.
1. How many Holidays do you get?
2. Do you have a defined pension - Most of the Private Sector Saps don't - how many years to vest and what is the pay out.
3. Do you have HealthCare in Retirement with your Pension?
4. How many Sick day

[sunskyfan]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

I am one of those contractors who has seen his business dry up. It was remarkable how the attitude shifted when budgets got cut. BE weary. The government side has young PHDs buying houses, new cars, and traveling. I am struggling to survive.

This is now almost totally a cash flow economy. If you have contracted income especially with the government your dollars are worth 10-50 times (because of the ability to get a loan) than any other joe.

The organic economy is DEAD. It only lives and grows where there is water pumped in and fertilizer dumped.

Just a thought. We have been looking to name what is going on. The Great Recession. Depression Light. How about the The Great F-up. The 401-k doesn't work for the majority. The tax-cut/low interest economic policy of the last 30 years has destroyed the integrity of a financial and political system. Globalization happened too fast and un-regulated and killed the job base. I think the Great F-up works.

[fallout]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

I'll try to take a stab at this one, as I've worked in the private sector (1994-2000) and for the US DOD (2000-present) as a mechanical engineer. Roughly apples to apples. I made roughly 25% more in the private sector, in terms of salary, bonuses, etc, and actually took a pay cut to go government. To take it a step further, heck, some of my old college buddies who dropped engineering for comp sci/IT were literally raking it in thanks to the dot-com boom.
On the flip side, benefits were/are definitely better for the government positions (health insurance, number of days paid vacation time, ease of taking said vacation time), although they are not as good as they were 20 years ago. For example, the retirement system for those hired after the mid-90's replaced a defined pension plan (CSRS) with a watered down 401k style system (FERS). Job security is much better. Minor differences, like annual cost of living increases no longer dependent on profitability, are also a consideration.
Today, highly skilled DOD contractors I work side by side with still make a bit more than I do, doing the same basic work and with the same basic skillset/education/etc., but their benefits are much reduced, and their job security is nearly non-existant, being little more than glorified temps. None the less, many of those who retire from here (a conus AFB) turn around and come back as private contractors, and there is a valid argument to be made that "government work" includes both gov't employees and those who benefit directly from gov't spending, i.e. defense contractors, road construction companies, naval yards, etc, which might make that sort of a moot point.
Given the crappy state of the private economy, however, I think we can all agree that right now a gov't position is the better of the two, even if pay is at parity. I certainly feel that way. ;)

[Ghent12]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

None the less, many of those who retire from here (a conus AFB) turn around and come back as private contractors, and there is a valid argument to be made that "government work" includes both gov't employees and those who benefit directly from gov't spending, i.e. defense contractors, road construction companies, naval yards, etc, which might make that sort of a moot point.

A neat trick that happens from time to time is to downsize the upper technical aspects of the military and rehire those same personnel in exactly the same positions, but as private sector contractors. Thus, the government magically created jobs.

Based on my experience, it seems to be almost a racket. All the schools and training you can stand to become technically proficient in dismantling radars, radios, and all manners of other electronics, only to retire at around age 40 and go back to work doing the exact same thing, but with more pay and retaining almost all of the benefits. Ridiculous.

[fallout]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

BK, in answer to your questions:
1. How many Holidays do you get? 10, all paid. I also have two "energy days" when things are shut down and I am required to use 2 days of my annual leave (i.e. vacation days). I receive 15 days paid vacation each year, which may be used on a per-hour basis (i.e. 4 hours today and go home early, 8 hours tomorrow, etc).
2. Do you have a defined pension? No, I have a lovely 401k-like program called TSP, where the gov't matches the first 3% of my pre-tax contribution. Funds may be allocated to one of 5 government run funds, all but one of which have lost substantially over the last 18 months or so (some to the tune of 40%+ at the low point). The only one that has not is tied to 30 year treasury bonds, and hence returns are marginal.
3. Do you have HealthCare in Retirement with your Pension? No. After retirement, I will have to secure my own health insurance and pay for same. I already pay roughly 50% of the (probably group negotiated) premiums directly out of my biweekly paycheck.
4. How many Sick days? I receive 4 hours (i.e. half a day) every two weeks, or 13 days per year paid sick leave. Unused days are saved and rolled over, however, so it is possible to accrue a substantial bank after a decade or so. After exhausting them, one must go on "extended leave without pay", for which a major medical emergency is needed (i.e cancer, car wreck, maturnity leave, etc).

Hope that helps.

[fallout]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

Agreed, and it is a well known "system" for those with the necessary connections to game the system. Again, Dmitry Orlov would point out the similarities between such and the old Soviet Union.

[WDCRob]

Re: Public sector salary vs Private sector

Mine are similar enough to those above - but still with no pension. So the math is pretty easy BK. The biggest difference is that I don't have to work 60-80 hours a week and weekends.

But the point I was trying to make is that if you compare similar job titles and responsibilities and similar geographic areas (DC is a very expensive place, with a high level of compensation across the board) Fed Workers do not make nearly twice their private sector counterparts.