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Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

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  • Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

    http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst...2/5166330.html

    December 8, 2009 8:09 AM EST
    In a report on Tuesday from Moody's Investors Service, the U.S and U.K. were set apart from other triple-A rated countries as being weaker, calling them "resilient" and "not resistant."

    Moody's referred to Canada, France and Germany as resistant, citing that the public finances of these countries are currently in better shape in the report that sought to examine the creditworthiness of the world’s highest rated countries.

    The report said that in the worst-case scenario the U.S. could lose its triple-A rating in 2013 if the countries grow slows, interest rates climb and if the government fails to address the national deficit that has substantially grown due to the assistance provided to the financial sector.

    "The next year or two will show whether growth potential has been structurally eroded or whether a robust yet sustainable recovery is possible," said Pierre Cailleteau, chief international economist at Moody's.

    Cailleteau added that "now the question of a potential downgrade of the U.S. is not inconceivable."

    ********

    Einhorn on Moody's and sovereign risk from the Value Investing Congress:

    My firm recently met with a Moody's sovereign risk team covering twenty countries in Asia and the Middle East. They have only four professionals covering the entire region. Moody's does not have a long-term quantitative model that incorporates changes in the population, incomes, expected tax rates, and so forth. They use a short-term outlook – only 12-18 months – to analyze data to assess countries' abilities to finance themselves. Moody's makes five-year medium-term qualitative assessments for each country, but does not appear to do any long-term quantitative or critical work.

    Their main role, again, appears to be to tell everyone that things are fine, until a real crisis emerges at which point they will pile-on credit downgrades at the least opportune moment, making a difficult situation even more difficult for the authorities to manage.

    I can just envision a future Congressional Hearing so elected officials can blame the rating agencies for blowing it, as the rating agencies respond by blaming Congress.

  • #2
    Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

    Aaa- ? :d

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    • #3
      Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

      First they will downgrade Greece, Irland etc... There is still intrest in US bonds when some countries have BIG problem with thier papers. For Greece as I remember 125% deficit is projected for 2010.

      They accually change Greece rating from A- to BBB+ today
      Last edited by sandwind; December 08, 2009, 02:11 PM. Reason: info regarding to Greece

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      • #4
        Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

        It is amusing that anyone pays any attention whatsoever to Moody's given its MBS record.

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        • #5
          Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

          Originally posted by c1ue View Post
          It is amusing that anyone pays any attention whatsoever to Moody's given its MBS record.

          Here in the Land of Make-Believe these ratings still matter. Just close your eyes and make believe.

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          • #6
            Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

            Yup. Most is driven by FI capital requirement guidelines - from banks to insurance companies to pensions to monolines.

            If it's rated x by so and so, then hold this much in capital. If it's rated x -1 by so and so, then hold this much more in capital. If it's rated x - 5 or worse by so and so, then we can't invest in it. Keep ratings high, (i) I can earn more on my required capital based on current rates, and/or (ii) I don't have to charge as much on my required capital.

            This is part of the "genius" behind securitization -- as it asymetrically increases leverage and reduces capital requirements based on current standards.

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            • #7
              Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

              They've already announced a possible downgrade of Mexico, so it doesn't surprise me.
              sigpic
              Attention: Electronics Engineer Learning Economics.

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              • #8
                Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

                Ah, Moody's, the same Moody's that missed the bus on the MBS market? ;) these guys are to be trusted. Honestly, how can anyone put stock in their valuation. To me the fact that they even mentioned it means it's immanent...they make a corrective move only after it's self evident and they still have jobs!

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                • #9
                  Re: Moody's Says a U.S. Debt Downgrade Is "Not Inconceivable"

                  Originally posted by WildspitzE View Post
                  Yup. Most is driven by FI capital requirement guidelines - from banks to insurance companies to pensions to monolines.

                  If it's rated x by so and so, then hold this much in capital. If it's rated x -1 by so and so, then hold this much more in capital. If it's rated x - 5 or worse by so and so, then we can't invest in it. Keep ratings high, (i) I can earn more on my required capital based on current rates, and/or (ii) I don't have to charge as much on my required capital.

                  This is part of the "genius" behind securitization -- as it asymetrically increases leverage and reduces capital requirements based on current standards.
                  AKA "Life in the Tranches" :p

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