Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

Stating two facts together does not make them related. Even though most people prefer vanilla ice cream by a wide majority, that does not imply that they all support requiring children to swear allegiance to vanilla ice cream. Many of them may, in fact, prefer to leave ice cream out of government and politics entirely. It simply does not follow.

[rjwjr]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

Stating two facts together does not make them related. Even though most people prefer vanilla ice cream by a wide majority, that does not imply that they all support requiring children to swear allegiance to vanilla ice cream. Many of them may, in fact, prefer to leave ice cream out of government and politics entirely. It simply does not follow.

Accoring to this article... http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled1.htm

In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - 2008) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part:

"Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow."

Let us not forget that we are a Christian-based society that allows for religious freedom without persecution. There is a huge difference in remaining tolerant while staying true to your roots versus cowtowing to every minority religious or other group that works to change the system or gain special exception.

My point being, I think it is pretty obvious that the majority of Americans prefer the "under God" phrase in the Pledge (in spite of any vanilla ice cream and KKK analogies) and it makes no sense at this time to concern ourselves with a small minority that don't like it. The addition of the phrase is more in keeping with the founding and current principles of the Republic to which we are pledging, so it is a welcome addition...even from this atheist.

Honestly, I don't know any religious "activists" personally. All of the religious people that I know personally are good people looking to do good for themselves, while helping-out others where they can. Most are honest, moral, and likeable individuals that happen to go to church most Sundays. I've never understood the anger towards these mostly good hearted people. Vilifying this group is like vilifying Mothers in my mind. I just don't get it. Sure I didn't like it when my Mom told me to eat my broccoli, but that didn't make her the devil. Can't we turn our attention to true religious extremists and leave the people that simply believe in God for another time when we run out of real villains?

[don]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

The founding fathers were not involved in the Pledge of Allegiance. Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892, more than a century after Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. His original Pledge read as follows:

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

In 1954, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, Congress added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge.

The words are only in the pledge because politicians caved to pressure from religious activists.

It's a relic from the fight against Communism. In 1957 In God We Trust was added to the paper dollars. Same-O, Same-O.

[rjwjr]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

It's a relic from the fight against Communism. In 1957 In God We Trust was added to the paper dollars. Same-O, Same-O.

Can I change my argument? Maybe we should remove it since we're now beholden to those God-less commies for financing our lifestyle.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

Can I change my argument? Maybe we should remove it since we're now beholden to those God-less commies for financing our lifestyle.

Yes you can, especially to this excellent point.

When I was a schoolboy, were anyone foolish enough to do business with the commies in the USSR or China just to save a buck, they would have faced an angry mob. Sadly, today we easily set aside any claimed moral values for money, and our corporations actually assist the Chinese in suppressing free speech on the internet.

Is there a slippery slope argument lurking here?

[Shakespear]

Re: Water, Just Ahead- I Swear

One can see how easily and fast MONEY can smooth out any problem.

Even such arch enemy as the Communist State (Same goes for them doing business with Capitalists). When I pointed this out to my friends they do not seem to see a problem, since we are doing business with them ALL MUST be fine.