The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

EDIT:
This looks interesting ... I'll look at this later when I get a couple of hours do d*ck around
http://weblog.miceda.org/2007/08/17/...little-script/

I'm downloading them. That Ruby script has the right idea -- get a local copy of that web.archive.com web page linked above, extract each of the 288 or so http://web.archive.org/web/.*/http://.* URL's embedded in that web page, and curl or wget each one. I don't have a Ruby setup so I did it in a shell one-liner (the calling card of an old geek .) The WaybackMachine (archive.org) website is slow; it's downloading number 45 50 of 288 as I type this.

[metalman]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

Kiyosaki isn't a scam - not a big fan of his but he isn't a bad guy. Metal as part of the iTulip (paid) group can't stand anyone that makes more money than EJ or has a different view. Metal is a joke

I would bet money that Metal is EJs wife, just a guess.(not really) When you see this deleted you will know for sure

fine. get scammed. 401k was invented by wall street to get j6p $$$ into wall street product... stocks... & shift risk from corp. pension plans onto j6p. ask jim cramer and the army of 'financial planners' who who sold the scam for fees for decades.

signing out. all yours, rabot...

[cindykimlisa]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

I agree that saving money is not a scam. Providing a tax shelter for either employer and/or employee to create a special account to save money may be bad policy but is not scam.

The three primary reasons 401k's are a scam is that:

1) They were part of a lie to make the destruction of the traditional guaranteed pension politically palatable.

2) The savings rate to make them work, even with employer contribution, is beyond what the average worker can contribute.

3) The government requires investment of the monies in a way that specifically DOES NOT benefit the saver. Perhaps, before last fall, you could believe that Wall Street was a Trust statistically large enough not to be effected by self-interests in conflict with the Trustee (the retiree) but now, after last fall, that belief is clearly a joke.

401ks are not a scam - they are part of the federal tax code. Anyone can read it and take advantage of it if you are clever and intelligent enough. I had five or more 401k's and made enough to retire early. What I did not buy into was the words "growth" and "Value" being hyped by financial people - Friends and "advisors" thought I was crazy to go with a capital preservation strategy. Eventually all my 401ks landed in a self directed IRA or two where I manage them myself. Read the tax code, think critically for yourself, avoid herd mentality and for the most part one can do ok and retire early and do well. 401ks worked great for me.

Cindy

[metalman]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

401ks are not a scam - they are part of the federal tax code. Anyone can read it and take advantage of it if you are clever and intelligent enough. I had five or more 401k's and made enough to retire early. What I did not buy into was the words "growth" and "Value" being hyped by financial people - Friends and "advisors" thought I was crazy to go with a capital preservation strategy. Eventually all my 401ks landed in a self directed IRA or two where I manage them myself. Read the tax code, think critically for yourself, avoid herd mentality and for the most part one can do ok and retire early and do well. 401ks worked great for me.

Cindy

you're 1 intelligent adult in a generation of 50+ yr old children. the system was designed to extract max. $$$ from them. a few thousand cindy's didn't break the system... it assumed millions of complacent morons who bought into 'buy & hold'.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

I found that earlier today.

The ReedWhitney webpages are in the tarball thepythoniccow.us/ReedonWhitney.tgz

[medved]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

You can simultaneously be right about the role of the 401(k) in ending defined benefit plans, without the 401(k) itself being a 'scam'. As far as I am concerned, the 401(k) is a piece of the tax code, and the only potential scams are (a) the investment products marketed for holding in 401(k) accounts, (b) abusive practices by the trustees or appointed fiduciaries of a 401(k) plan, or (c) misrepresentation by politicians or the financial services industry of what pay-out can reasonably be achieved, and how best to use a 401(k). However, these potential scams are not inherent in the 401(k) itself.

I quite agree that the great majority of people are not saving enough in tax-deferred retirement accounts to fund the retirement that they expect. I am also aware that many participants in tax-deferred retirement accounts are ill-equipped to manage their investments. While this means that the 401(k) is not an effective piece of social policy for funding the retirement expenses of the masses, it doesn't add up to a 'scam' in the way that Kiyosaki uses the term. It just means that the 401(k) doesn't fit well into a nanny-state; it won't function as a social safety net, and it won't profit the inattentive or uncritical. However, it is a valuable tool for those with the wit to wield it.

Put another way, my inability to create fine art when furnished with a paintbrush and canvas in no way invalidates their utility in the hands of a talented artist. At the same time, if the social goal is to fill the world with art, a policy of providing everyone with art supplies, and letting them have at it with no instruction (or false instruction) will not serve its purpose.

There is nothing wrong with 401k except for limited investment choices. My current 401k is 80% cash and 20% oil companies. Whenever I left a job in the past I always moved my 401k to a Rollover IRA where I can do my own investment. My total tax-deferred investments (401k+IRA) were growing at about 15% over the last 10 years.

I prefer my 401k over defined benefits programs any day. None of those programs will survive except for the ones belonging for the govt's bloodsuckers. Those will be balanced on the backs of taxpayers.

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

I am sure that there a few Madof clients that got out at the right time or played the correct optimization.

Just because something is written into the US tax code does not make it right nor does its public domain quality make it fair. I am sure that if you talk to tonight's Lotto winner he has many good things to say about gambling. This last point is not meant to take away from you ability to make and invest money as am I sure you worked hard for it and have been quite shrewd.

401ks may work for certain individuals but they do not work for the people as a whole.

Economic success induced nihilism torwards humanity is what is bringing the system down.

[ASH]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

There is nothing wrong with 401k except for limited investment choices.

Indeed. One of the reasons I am pro-401(k) is that I have a self-directed brokerage 401(k). Flexibility is the only thing missing from most 401(k) plans, but the law actually allows it. The problem is with the plans offered by various companies, but not the law itself. I hold nearly 100% CEF in my 401(k) -- how sweet is that!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

I hold nearly 100% CEF in my 401(k) -- how sweet is that!

Dang - sweet!

[Spartacus]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

r u Paul Jackson? Thanks much.

That's a honeypot to get my IP address, right?

as the d00dz like to write, p0wned!![*]

The ReedWhitney webpages are in the tarball pauljackson.us/ReedonWhitney.tgz

[*] no sarcasm tags needed, I think ; )

[Spartacus]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

he may not have been a scammer[*] before, but apparently he's wedded to the Whitney organization now, and that makes him ...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/14/ltm.02.html

>>>
HUNTER: In its agreement with the Florida attorney general, the Whitney Information Network did not admit any wrongdoing. It denied allegations of deceptive advertising but agreed to pay a million dollars towards customer refunds and to leave those disclaimers up longer on infomercials. We contacted the Whitney Information Network for comment, they did not
<<<<<

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

Well said.

[Raz]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

Whatever one may think of Kiyosaki the 401k is a scam. It was introduced as a narrative to defuse the valid worries of killing pensions when Reagan killed the unions. Most actuaries will tell you that almost no-one is able to contribute enough to their 401k to make a retirement they expect even when the market is performing well.

If one takes a careful look at the period from the Late-1940s through the Mid-1970s it looks as though Big Labor killed itself.:p

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

Just as capitalism did from 1980-2007? ;)

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Biggest Scam Ever by Robert Kiyosaki

Oh ... I forgot one ... if it wasn't for the 401k do you think that American would have stood by and watched the government bail-out of Wall Street last year?