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For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

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  • For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

    Could not say it better myself (though I tried)

    http://www.kitco.com/ind/Turk/turk_oct232009.html

    Nov 23 2009 11:29AM
    Welcome to Stage Two of Gold's Bull Market


    Bull markets are marked by three distinct stages, and when gold climbed above $1,000, it only entered its second stage. In other words, gold has much further to climb in the months and years ahead.
    So don’t be misled by what you may hear or read in the mainstream media and even much of the alternative media. After all, how many commentators have correctly identified gold’s bull market, now a decade old?
    As Robert Blumen cogently argues: “Many of the financial media have a pronounced anti-gold bias. Of the writers and news anchors now calling gold a bubble, not only did they fail to identify the stock market bubble in the 90s or the subsequent housing market boom as a bubble, they actively promoted the excesses of those unsustainable booms, encouraging their viewers or readers to participate. For the most part, these pundits have failed to identify a rising gold price as an investment trend at any point in the past ten years (during which gold had a positive return each and every year).” Robert then goes on to observe the silly incongruity of their warnings about gold: “Witness the irony of the financial media transformed from hypesters who never saw a bubble they couldn’t promote into bubble vigilantes, issuing concerned warnings to ‘get out [of gold], now, before you get hurt.’”
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blumen/blumen19.1.html
    There are different ways to determine relative value, and one of these is gauging market sentiment, which is what a bull market’s three stages communicate. During the first stage of a bull market, the media and most investors alike focus on past issues, rather than future potential. Over the past decade one consequently heard all the reasons not to own the gold.
    An old and trusty adage says that bull markets climb a ‘wall of worry’. In gold’s first stage, there seemingly was a lot to worry about. But most of these worries were emotional in nature and not logical. Few paid attention to relative value, which is the proper determining factor when making decisions about your portfolio. Truth be told, I too was worried, but I didn’t let it keep me from accumulating gold and recommending to anyone reading my analyses to do the same.
    Gold is now in its second stage, and of course, the worries don’t disappear. They never do because there are always emotional reactions that at first blush offer seemingly plausible reasons for not taking the right action. But there is a notable difference in this stage compared to stage one. Look how many people are writing and talking about gold. Gold has moved from apathy and neglect – stage one characteristics – to growing attention. But importantly, instead of embracing gold and analyzing it to determine relative value, today’s attention is one of widespread disbelief and skepticism that gold can climb higher. These are exactly the responses one should expect to emanate from stage two.
    As gold climbs higher, we will eventually enter stage three. The timing of its arrival cannot be predicted, but we will know it has arrived when commentators who have been consistently wrong about gold will be telling everyone willing to listen to buy gold. But at some point in stage three when gold no longer is relatively good value, it is when I will be advising to reduce your gold holding by spending or investing it. We are, however, a long way from there, so my advice for now remains the same as it has been throughout this decade. Continue to accumulate gold. View it as your savings account. Savings are always a good thing, particularly when you are saving sound money.
    by James Turk


  • #2
    Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

    Gold's utilitarian value manifests only in social collapse. Short of that, it is an investment barometer that measures the health of fiat currencies.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

      Originally posted by due_indigence View Post
      Gold's utilitarian value manifests only in social collapse. Short of that, it is an investment barometer that measures the health of fiat currencies.
      I'd partially agree. But might I suggest that gold's utilitarian value manifests itself in monetary collapse, not social collapse. If society collapses, I want guns, food and a big dog.

      I will grant that monetary collapse often causes social collapse. But not always.
      Most folks are good; a few aren't.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

        Originally posted by due_indigence View Post
        Gold's utilitarian value manifests only in social collapse. Short of that, it is an investment barometer that measures the health of fiat currencies.
        But during times of prosperity and stability, gold's value also manifests in the form of jewelery worn as an outward symbol of wealth and security. Declining demand for gold jewelery is being interpreted as negative for gold by the MSM, who fail to see that during times of uncertainty, the use of gold as jewelery is inappropriate; it now has to be kept hidden in bank vaults and bunkers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

          I really think gold is being propelled by fear of the future. People are afraid paper currencies will be debased, and inflation will rise.

          My town just approved an underpass under the railway tracks for big $$$.
          They can't pay for it, they will have to borrow, plead to the state or fed, or raise taxes. When I mentioned that things have changed, that we just can't borrow, print spend etc, I was laughed out of the board meeting. This is just a "dip" next year everything will be back to normal.

          I believe the same general ideology is in Washington. Things will go back to the way they were. Those buying gold are the ones who know things aren't going back.

          It has only been this week that anyone in wash has said that maybe deficits matter, but this was lip service. At the same time they march along with health care, a two front war, bail out for everyone. Build roads and bridges even though cars are "bad" Only a crazy minority are worried about the deficts, and lax monetary policy.

          I bet you gold would take a big hit, if tomorrow uncle ben said FFR is 2%, and will be raised incrementally. All alphabet soup programs will be sunset by 2010. Gvt said no more bail outs, no more backing of the housing market. etc. but that will never happen, unless it must.
          Last edited by charliebrown; November 24, 2009, 07:03 PM. Reason: ADHD

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

            Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
            I bet you gold would take a big hit, if tomorrow uncle ben said FFR is 2%, and will be raised incrementally. All alphabet soup programs will be sunset by 2010. Gvt said no more bail outs, no more backing of the housing market. etc. but that will never happen, unless it must.
            Sure it would. And the politicians would be dealing with massive unemployment and cries for help from the populace that would reach shriek proportions the longer the Fed tightened. Not gonna happen, certainly not until the Fed is convinced inflation is baked in. I don't think the deleveraging is near done, so that means much more monetizing left to go to get that inflation. The question is whether they can keep the bond market at bay long enough while they print those bonars without cracking the currency into shards. That is unless you believe this turn around is for real.... Hah!

            I doubt we will see a meaningful rate change until inflation is here to stay, and those rates will chase inflation's tail for a long while.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

              FORGET the "walls of worry". IMHO it doesn't apply here.

              The question here is - have these commentators and networks figured out which side of the bread their butter's on?

              I think they have, and they have decided the butter and the Gold are in 2 different places. In other words, we'll NEVER see them pushing Gold.

              EVER. It's a pipe dream to think otherwise. That bell ("they always ring a bell at the top") will NEVER ring, because no one is going to be paid to ring it.

              unless something happens to incentivize them otherwise.

              Like we've noted on iTulip many times, no one believes in a "New Era" more fervently than someone who's PAID to believe in it.

              The exception here is those who make money out of random noise, hysteria and the spewing of a torrent of BS. He may push Gold (and did for a week or so, 3 years ago). But that's noise, a blip; Nothing sustained will happen there.

              >> An old and trusty adage says that bull markets climb a ‘wall of worry’. In gold’s first stage, there seemingly was a lot to worry about. But most of these worries were emotional in nature and not logical.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
                ...

                I believe the same general ideology is in Washington. Things will go back to the way they were. Those buying gold are the ones who know things aren't going back.

                ....
                very astute charlie..... sad to say, we are not going back to the way it was

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                  [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Jack/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/Jack/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                    Originally posted by Jay View Post
                    Sure it would. And the politicians would be dealing with massive unemployment and cries for help from the populace that would reach shriek proportions the longer the Fed tightened. Not gonna happen, certainly not until the Fed is convinced inflation is baked in. I don't think the deleveraging is near done, so that means much more monetizing left to go to get that inflation. The question is whether they can keep the bond market at bay long enough while they print those bonars without cracking the currency into shards. That is unless you believe this turn around is for real.... Hah!

                    I doubt we will see a meaningful rate change until inflation is here to stay, and those rates will chase inflation's tail for a long while.
                    You read my thoughts, Jay, and expressed them succinctly.;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                      We have a populace that doesn't understand that the earth beneath their feet is shifting. They can feel the tremors, they know that something out of the ordinary is occurring, but do not have the ability to understand that an entirely new world is being thrust upon them. They prefer to remain in their self-induced comas, medicated with "Dancing with the Stars," "American Idol" and the spectacle of a 50-year old pedophile junkie who's passing is celebrated as if he were anointed by the heavenly father who left upon him a sequined glove as a marker of his grace.

                      The call for a return to how things were is ringing hollow to them. Back to what? Back to spending sans employment, a house to take a HELOC out on, a credit card with an available credit line?

                      Wealth creation is not created by debt aggregation.

                      The inflation will sweep past them like the hot wind in a blistering mid-day sub-Saharan sand storm, and before they can cover their mouths and noses, their lungs will be filled and their fate sealed.

                      I think that all of this is happening on a timetable that none of thought would be so soon. My intuition tells me that we are within the sand storm now and it is but moments away from raging......and now back to our regularly scheduled programming, "and the winner is"........

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                        Originally posted by charliebrown View Post

                        My town just approved an underpass under the railway tracks for big $$$.
                        They can't pay for it, they will have to borrow, plead to the state or fed, or raise taxes. When I mentioned that things have changed, that we just can't borrow, print spend etc, I was laughed out of the board meeting. This is just a "dip" next year everything will be back to normal.
                        That must have been incredibly infuriating for you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                          I find the term "collapse" starting to be used a lot more in the MSM. It is used here all the time and generally I think it is appropriate.

                          My opinion is that the "collapse" has already happened. We have seen a Herculean break with the nominal attitudes toward fiscal policy. We have 17.5% unemployment with the number surging every month. The health care system is generally dis-functional and the military can't insulate us from life and death risk. What more do you want? Did you expect a declarative event? God sticking his finger down from the sky? Mad Max roaring by on the highway? The Sheep Look Up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                            Originally posted by Jay View Post
                            Sure it would. And the politicians would be dealing with massive unemployment and cries for help from the populace that would reach shriek proportions the longer the Fed tightened. Not gonna happen, certainly not until the Fed is convinced inflation is baked in. I don't think the deleveraging is near done, so that means much more monetizing left to go to get that inflation. The question is whether they can keep the bond market at bay long enough while they print those bonars without cracking the currency into shards. That is unless you believe this turn around is for real.... Hah!

                            I doubt we will see a meaningful rate change until inflation is here to stay, and those rates will chase inflation's tail for a long while.
                            Excellent summary!!
                            It's the Debt, stupid!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: For ASH, (and everyone else trying to figure out gold recent rapid rise)

                              With the dollar continuing to break down, how long before this is baked into inflation. What gross percent of our consumption lives are based upon cheap imported goods, and an increasing amount of cheap services.

                              Oil is obvious, but how many cars are either built in canada, or mexico and even if they are assembled in here, what is the percentage of imported parts? How much stuff from wal-mart is imported. Shoes, clothes, electronics. We even import a lot of agricultural products, like oils, and produce.

                              Capital formation is going to be increasingly difficult in the U.S. even if I wanted to create a new shoe factory, can I raise the money to do it?

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