Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

[jtabeb]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

The information was not leaked, it was stolen.

Umm, no. Your information is incorrect. IT WAS LEAKED, by an insider with INSIDE ACCESS. That may still fit under your definition of "stolen", but this is a "leak" by a whistle-blower. You may still persist with you calls of "factually incorrect", "stolen", and "misrepresentation", but the TOTALITY of the documents and the fact that an inside whistle-blower leaked them leads me to draw a different conclusion than you.

If you would like to examine the documents YOURSELF, and then let us know if you change your opinion, they are available here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/309919401/FOI2009.zip


Why don't your read for yourself, then get back to us with your conclusions?

[oddlots]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

The global warming debate sort of reminds me of that great quote from Borges re. the Falklands war: it's like watching two bald men fighting over a comb.

We're running out of the stuff anyway, so who cares why we find alternatives. (Though I suppose that doesn't tell us why we shouldn't be ramping up coal use.)

The other thing that strikes me is that not being able to prove with certainty anthropogenic global warming doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep dumping co2 into the atmosphere. If there is a reasonable risk of this ending badly why would we gamble with this?

That said, the "deniers" have convinced me that making decisions in a condition of hysteria is [I]never[I] a good idea. For that, at least, I'm grateful.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

Umm, no. Your information is incorrect. IT WAS LEAKED, by an insider with INSIDE ACCESS. That may still fit under your definition of "stolen", but this is a "leak" by a whistle-blower. You may still persist with you calls of "factually incorrect", "stolen", and "misrepresentation", but the TOTALITY of the documents and the fact that an inside whistle-blower leaked them leads me to draw a different conclusion than you.

If you would like to examine the documents YOURSELF, and then let us know if you change your opinion, they are available here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/309919401/FOI2009.zip


Why don't your read for yourself, then get back to us with your conclusions?

From the University of East Anglia's website

Climatic Research Unit update

It is a matter of concern that data, including personal information about individuals, appears to have been illegally taken from the university and elements published selectively on a number of websites.
The volume of material published and its piecemeal nature makes it impossible to confirm what proportion is genuine. We took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation and have involved the police in what we consider to be a criminal investigation.

From the guardian:

The files, which in total amount to 160MbB of data, were first uploaded on to a Russian server, before being widely mirrored across the internet. The emails were accompanied by the anonymous statement: "We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to be kept under wraps. We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it."


A spokesperson for the University of East Anglia said: "We are aware that information from a server used for research information in one area of the university has been made available on public websites. Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm that all this material is genuine. This information has been obtained and published without our permission and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation. We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and have involved the police in this inquiry."

I conclude the files were stolen and iTulip now has stolen content on it's servers.

[ggirod]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

That said, the "deniers" have convinced me that making decisions in a condition of hysteria is [i]never[i] a good idea. For that, at least, I'm grateful.

I swore to myself that I was going to stay out of this but I find I cannot.

I am not sure how 40 years of discussion can constitute hysteria. Typically, hysteria is a bit more sudden, frantic, and unconsidered. Forty years of hysteria (actually, I think the video dates back 41 years, but who's counting) seems a bit unlikely.

Lean back and enjoy a blast from the past - the topic of global warming in a rendition from that great singer of "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" fame, Tiny Tim.

[media][/media]
Global Warming ... Whod'a Thunk?

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

With Cap and Trade on the docket for the New Year, this will certainly introduce a monkey wrench.

The scientific field, to my knowledge, does have oversight. Grant issuers can request the data from the involved scientist(s) for review purposes. It will take time though.

[jtabeb]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

From the University of East Anglia's website

From the guardian:
I conclude the files were stolen and iTulip now has stolen content on it's servers.

Conclude what you will about stolen/not stolen, as I said, there are conflicting reports as to how the material came into the public domain (it is much easier to claim "external hacking" vs admitting to an internal leak, but I digress).

The point is WHAT do you think of the information and the email traffic. What conclusions do YOU draw from them?

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

Every movement needs its "useful idiots". Western liberals who aren't milking this (i.e the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming) but serving as fodder for the movement are the useful idiots. The smart cookies are the ones at Goldman's and people like Gore who are milking it for hundreds of millions.

Gore lives in a house that pumps more CO2 in the atmosphere than an entire American neighbourhood and flies around the world in a private jet (ummm, how much CO2 is that per year???). He's also multiplied his "green" investments some 60 fold (his initial $1 million investments are now worth $60 million - thanks to his "untiring" efforts at spreading "awareness").

And the idiot western liberals cheer him on as a saint. Keep it up boys! As your energy bills skyrocket while no coal power plants and nuclear plants are built, Gore and the Goldman's crowd will be serving themselves Caviar for dinner, the Chinese and Indians will take the factories and industrial production while the western middle class will cover itself with a duvet in winter. Its a comical sight.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

Conclude what you will about stolen/not stolen, as I said, there are conflicting reports as to how the material came into the public domain (it is much easier to claim "external hacking" vs admitting to an internal leak, but I digress).

The point is WHAT do you think of the information and the email traffic. What conclusions do YOU draw from them?

There is nothing in any of these emails that I wouldn't expect to see in any large scale engineering project at any large company. Science is proposed and checked at the scientific journal level, not in private emails.

I'll tell you what, you give me your username and password to your email account so I can go over your emails from the last couple of years and let me see how many conspiracies I can construct from the bits and pieces I post here. How about it?

The fact remains, these were stolen property and they are now on iTulips servers.

[jiimbergin]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

There is nothing in any of these emails that I wouldn't expect to see in any large scale engineering project at any large company. Science is proposed and checked at the scientific journal level, not in private emails.

I'll tell you what, you give me your username and password to your email account so I can go over your emails from the last couple of years and let me see how many conspiracies I can construct from the bits and pieces I post here. How about it?

The fact remains, these were stolen property and they are now on iTulips servers.

But if also appears that the emailers were trying to prevent the proper functioning of Freedom of Information Act. Say what you want, but the more one reads of these emails it is obvious to more and more people, including some who supported AGW, that much of what was going on was not science.

jim

[jtabeb]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

There is nothing in any of these emails that I wouldn't expect to see in any large scale engineering project at any large company. Science is proposed and checked at the scientific journal level, not in private emails.

I'll tell you what, you give me your username and password to your email account so I can go over your emails from the last couple of years and let me see how many conspiracies I can construct from the bits and pieces I post here. How about it?

The fact remains, these were stolen property and they are now on iTulips servers.

If I were attempting to defraud the public, you would be entitled to my emails, since I am not, you are not entitled to them.

Umm, you still haven't read for yourself any of the material in question have you?

If you simply took the time to do so, I think that you'd find it as damning as some do.

There is a difference between an engineering project and a effort to intentionally abuse, fraudulently mislead a significant public policy debate under the rubric of "Good, sound scientific practices". The files contained in material in question strongly suggests the exact opposite of the scientific process. (e.g. massage, exclude, manipulate the data to support a foregone conclusion, least that's not science the last time I checked).

[WildspitzE]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

There is nothing in any of these emails that I wouldn't expect to see in any large scale engineering project at any large company. Science is proposed and checked at the scientific journal level, not in private emails.

I'll tell you what, you give me your username and password to your email account so I can go over your emails from the last couple of years and let me see how many conspiracies I can construct from the bits and pieces I post here. How about it?

The fact remains, these were stolen property and they are now on iTulips servers.

I've seen this reaction to this whole debacle in other forums. I'll post the same question here....

If these emails were all a bunch of FIRE CEOs and/or business heads talking about fitting curves, structuring payments in ways to reduce red flags, how to fleece taxpayers, or how to fleece mortgagors, etc. ....Would you have reacted the same way?

Basically saying:
- everybody does it
- i'm sure that i can interpret any set of emails and construct things out of them
- make a stink about how the scam ended up being made public

Be honest now.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

I swore to myself that I was going to stay out of this but I find I cannot.

I am not sure how 40 years of discussion can constitute hysteria. Typically, hysteria is a bit more sudden, frantic, and unconsidered. Forty years of hysteria (actually, I think the video dates back 41 years, but who's counting) seems a bit unlikely.

Hmm ... what we have here is a failure to communicate. Perhaps as a cow my mastery of human talk is too limited - sorry.
1) That embedded video didn't work for me; from the HTML source I take it you were trying to show the Tiny Tim video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DEoOdcYKbc
2) I can't figure out what you saying here, ggirod. Are you saying (with sarcasm or straight) that the (alarmists or deniers) (were or were not) hysterical for 40 years and given that, what are you saying is the significance of this to the current debate over (global warming or these email messages)?

Er eh - in short - huh?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

There is nothing in any of these emails that I wouldn't expect to see in any large scale engineering project at any large company. Science is proposed and checked at the scientific journal level, not in private emails.

I guess you missed the part in these emails where they were corrupting and subverting the scientific journal peer review process.

[ggirod]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

I can't figure out what you saying here, ggirod.

What I am saying is that warming is not some sort of "new news" and that it has a history of 40 years of scientific investigation. Sorry, but hysteria is pretty hard to justify as a diagnosis after 40 years of methodical work.

In 1968, when that video was produced, the concept was admittedly a curiosity, people were beginning to study it, some people were making predictions, but mostly scientists were considering it by engaging in the often plodding, boring, dull, hard work that is serious science.

The idea that the ice caps could melt in the near future, that the climate could warm that much, was astounding and, for those who were aware, profoundly disturbing. Hence, the comical rendition by Tiny Tim. It was similar to the kind of comical consideration that John Stewart affords the serious topics of today. Sometimes topics are too disturbing to approach directly and comedy provides the cushion that makes it easier to contemplate. Obviously, we know that the whole planet would not flood, but for those poor people who live in low-lying areas, it will sure seem like it did. Anyway, the video is a marker in the past. A clear marker that society was already starting to contemplate the meaning of a phenomenon that is now understood quite well.

During more than 40+ years of work, more evidence was found and considered. Peace reigned in the kingdom until, one day, Deniers got really serious when, after controlling the public agenda for years under Bush with money from Exxon,

Revealed: Exxon Secret Funding of Global Warming Junk Scientists Posted by kert_davies on 05/26/2009 10:44 pm Finally. After years of denying its role in the campaign of climate denial, Exxon has revealed a dirty secret, that it has and likely still is DIRECTLY funding junk scientists.

the topic finally got some serious media attention and the science that had been conducted for decades was finally disseminated beyond the arcane realm of peer reviewed journals. By the way, please consider reading the whole article at the link and then look at the tangled web of influence that Exxon has bought.

Anyway, if anyone wants to call 40+ years of scientific research carefully written, discussed frankly and openly among peers, and published in scientific journals hysteria, then please, go ahead. I call it a sobering volume of data and interpretation that should lead to serious action on the part of everybody on this planet.

I trust you now understand what I am saying.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Global Warming Scam Uncovered by Hacker

I trust you now understand what I am saying.

That's clear - thanks.

I'll remain a (mostly non-hysterical) denier .