"New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

[Camtender]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/a...cial-emergency


"McMahon said the state must declare a financial emergency and enact a statutory freeze on public-sector wages for at least three years. State law allows this and enables contracts to be voided, he said. It would save at the rate of $2 billion a year for state, local and school taxpayers.

McMahon also called for shutting down the state's pension systems to new entrants and giving them instead a plan similar to one of the alternatives for the State University system, in which a stable amount is contributed by the state and employees can add their own.

Households moving out are taking wealth with them. They had average incomes 13 percent higher than those moving into New York in the 2006-07 period, the most recent for which data is available. The outflow drained $4.3 billion in taxpayer income from the state, the data said."

[audrey_girl]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

fyi -

things are not so hot on the West Coast either:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13784035

lets see - NY, CA, and Florida with the mortgage debacle (see great Darkness at Noon thread)...

where does this all lead us next year???

Dow 14,000?

[sarcasm, gallows humor]

[mmr]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

State spending cuts here in NY will never happen since the state government is run by public sector unions, public authorities like the MTA, and politically connected developers and financial companies. Rather than making any cuts, they'll just rely on the federal government to step in and maintain the current spending level, which was the main point of the stimulus package earlier this year. Most of the other blue states in trouble (NJ, IL, etc.) are in the same position, and if enough of them hit the wall or are about to do so, the feds will have no choice but to step in. (Thanks, Texas!)

Of course, putting another few hundred billion on the federal tab annually shouldn't be an issue and wouldn't increase the risk of a sudden stop...

[Jay]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

State spending cuts here in NY will never happen since the state government is run by public sector unions, public authorities like the MTA, and politically connected developers and financial companies. Rather than making any cuts, they'll just rely on the federal government to step in and maintain the current spending level, which was the main point of the stimulus package earlier this year. Most of the other blue states in trouble (NJ, IL, etc.) are in the same position, and if enough of them hit the wall or are about to do so, the feds will have no choice but to step in. (Thanks, Texas!)

Of course, putting another few hundred billion on the federal tab annually shouldn't be an issue and wouldn't increase the risk of a sudden stop...

[reallife]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

fyi -

things are not so hot on the West Coast either:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13784035

lets see - NY, CA, and Florida with the mortgage debacle (see great Darkness at Noon thread)...

where does this all lead us next year???

Dow 14,000?

[sarcasm, gallows humor]

Oh, the DOW could hit 14,000 alright. Probably not until 2012 or so. But by then a loaf of bread might be $5.00 and a gallon of gas might cost you $6.50. :rolleyes:

[thousandmilemargin]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

I know you are being sarcastic, but I agree. An extra $200 billion per annum to bail out state finances is not a lot in the context of the bailouts so far. And it would salve a few fears.

It also provides a channel to quickly distribute money as part of the next stimulus package.

[BK]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

I took a trip in to New York this past weekend.

New York is a unique place a couple of observations.

The latest attraction is The High Line-http://www.thehighline.org/ - A train tressel that was built in the 1930's (I wonder if a Government stimulus program helped build it) that was used to deliver food and raw materials to second floor Warehouse loading docks.
New York has turned the Train Tressel into a PARK - Grass - flowers walking paths - and I'd bet there were some Federal Grants that help pay for this.....

Who needs a Train Tressel in New York City - Trains and Manufacturing are so 1800s .

Warren Buffet buys a Train Company and New York City turns a Train Tressel into a Park. Who is right?

Second Observation:
The Number of Immigrants in New York is mind blowing - and I'm not talking about wealthy Russians or rich foreign students. The vast numbers of poor who come to New York to better there lives is over whelming and it is surely swamping the budget of New York City.
**Disclaimer - I believe immigrants are vital to a society because they are often big risk takers who can create more wealth for a society. But, the huge numbers of immigrants has too require lots of social services and certainly a bigger school system.

I find it expensive to visit New York for 5-6 hours and I can't imagine how a immigrant survives in New York for years- unless they have a rich Uncle Sam or Uncle Bloomberg.

[dcarrigg]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Oh, the DOW could hit 14,000 alright. Probably not until 2012 or so. But by then a loaf of bread might be $5.00 and a gallon of gas might cost you $6.50. :rolleyes:

[MulaMan]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Typical Times Square Tourist.

None of those immigrants live in Times Square, take the train out to Brooklyn and then tell me if NYC is an "expensive" city compared with living way out in the burbs.

Oh, include that $3 it cost you to travel by train 10 miles compare to the gas you use in your suburb to dirve 10 miles to get your $4 latte.

[MulaMan]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Typical Times Square Tourist.

None of those immigrants live in Times Square, take the train out to Brooklyn and then tell me if NYC is an "expensive" city compared with living way out in the burbs.

Oh, include that $3 it cost you to travel by train 10 miles compare to the gas you use in your suburb to dirve 10 miles to get your $4 latte.

[wayiwalk]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

I took a trip in to New York this past weekend.

New York is a unique place a couple of observations.

The latest attraction is The High Line-http://www.thehighline.org/ - A train tressel that was built in the 1930's (I wonder if a Government stimulus program helped build it) that was used to deliver food and raw materials to second floor Warehouse loading docks.
New York has turned the Train Tressel into a PARK - Grass - flowers walking paths - and I'd bet there were some Federal Grants that help pay for this.....

Who needs a Train Tressel in New York City - Trains and Manufacturing are so 1800s .

Warren Buffet buys a Train Company and New York City turns a Train Tressel into a Park. Who is right?

Second Observation:
The Number of Immigrants in New York is mind blowing - and I'm not talking about wealthy Russians or rich foreign students. The vast numbers of poor who come to New York to better there lives is over whelming and it is surely swamping the budget of New York City.
**Disclaimer - I believe immigrants are vital to a society because they are often big risk takers who can create more wealth for a society. But, the huge numbers of immigrants has too require lots of social services and certainly a bigger school system.

I find it expensive to visit New York for 5-6 hours and I can't imagine how a immigrant survives in New York for years- unless they have a rich Uncle Sam or Uncle Bloomberg.

Very good observations made.

I think one of the interesting battles to come in this country will be the attempts to revitalize partly abandoned railroads (tracks/right of ways)....19th Century Robber Barons, Part Deux? (as opposed to the 20th/21th century robber barons, the politician/financial elites).

Agreed - it's getting very expensive to visit NY, or for that matter, any of the large, financially quasi-stable, US cities. A recent trip to Boston surprised me on the high food costs within the city, if you were not doing fast (inexpensive) food.

I think one thing that is overlooked as far as immigrants, is the bar is lower relative to our perception as far as what is "safe" and what is "nice", as far as neighborhoods go. Things may have been alot worse from where they emmigrated from.

In light of the economic problems to be faced by NY/NYC I remind friends who live in New York what a hole it was back in the 1970s, even late 80s it wasn't so hot....I always ask them what their exit strategy is ...but what you have now isn't that bad at all.

But public transportation within the city is pretty pricey, no doubt. On the larger scheme of things, you've got Manhattan, which IS pretty pricey, but the other boroughs really aren't that expensive, in comparison.

People who work in NYC tend to get paid accordingly. When you factor it all together, you have an acceptable situation for many immigrants.

Also, as has always been the case, consider that there is both immigration and emmigration to/from this country. There are always people who come here and decide: 1) they can't hack it 2) they don't like it 3) they were only going to stay for a short time anyway.

I was surprised to learn that many of my ancestors had family members that tried it out for a number of years only to return to their home villages. Turns out the streets aren't paved with gold ;)

Also not sure how much the immigrants are killing the NYC budget - there's many factors there, probably the worst is the assumption that Fin'l firms tax revenue into city coffers will always be there, so the choice not to negotiate affordable contracts with the various city unions and passing the buck for future politicians to deal with. Then, there's also the fact that there are probably twice as many city employees as needed, based on stories I've heard from friends who've worked for the city and lament the bureaucratic mentality as well as the number of people who have a job who have definitively made up their mind that they will not do any productive work.:eek:

[BK]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Disclaimer - Immigrants have been a key to the American Success story - I'm just making observations of way Big City Politicians are ALWAYS pro-Immigrant. Is there a Big City Politician any where that is Anti-immigration.

Immigrants have been used by Municipalities to expand their Government. Your City will see more Money transferred to your City from the State and Federal coffers if you have lots of poor immigrants. More people in the city means more teachers, more policemen, more EMTs, more Firemen (who often do more EMT work than fight fires), more social workers in the schools, more translators to translate in City and State Offices for immigrants, translation of documents into lots of foreign languages, more intensive English as a second language for Immigrant children.

Why do you think Mayors of Every Big City are Pro-Immigrant. Please don't take my comments as anti-immigrant. Mayors like Immigration because State and City Unions love immigration because it helps drive up the population in Big Cities where the Population would be flat or dropping. I'd bet that US Born residents of New York City are likely to have 1-2 children at the most (I'll admit I'm guessing) and Immigrant families may be more likely to have 3-4 children. More Children equals More teachers and more Unionized school employees.

Its a fact of life that Organizations or people will do anything to survive. Immigrants come to the USA for a better life for themselves and their children. Big American Cities welcome the immigrants to keep the City Population growing and thats allows City/State Governments to expand to support the new residents.

It works well - Until it No Longer works!

[Jay]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Disclaimer - Immigrants have been a key to the American Success story - I'm just making observations of way Big City Politicians are ALWAYS pro-Immigrant. Is there a Big City Politician any where that is Anti-immigration.

Immigrants have been used by Municipalities to expand their Government. Your City will see more Money transferred to your City from the State and Federal coffers if you have lots of poor immigrants. More people in the city means more teachers, more policemen, more EMTs, more Firemen (who often do more EMT work than fight fires), more social workers in the schools, more translators to translate in City and State Offices for immigrants, translation of documents into lots of foreign languages, more intensive English as a second language for Immigrant children.

Why do you think Mayors of Every Big City are Pro-Immigrant. Please don't take my comments as anti-immigrant. Mayors like Immigration because State and City Unions love immigration because it helps drive up the population in Big Cities where the Population would be flat or dropping. I'd bet that US Born residents of New York City are likely to have 1-2 children at the most (I'll admit I'm guessing) and Immigrant families may be more likely to have 3-4 children. More Children equals More teachers and more Unionized school employees.

Its a fact of life that Organizations or people will do anything to survive. Immigrants come to the USA for a better life for themselves and their children. Big American Cities welcome the immigrants to keep the City Population growing and thats allows City/State Governments to expand to support the new residents.

It works well - Until it No Longer works!

Immigrants will wash dishes and toilets. Those are jobs most Americans think are beneath them, at least for another year or two.

[GRG55]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

Disclaimer - Immigrants have been a key to the American Success story - I'm just making observations of way Big City Politicians are ALWAYS pro-Immigrant. Is there a Big City Politician any where that is Anti-immigration.

Immigrants have been used by Municipalities to expand their Government. Your City will see more Money transferred to your City from the State and Federal coffers if you have lots of poor immigrants. More people in the city means more teachers, more policemen, more EMTs, more Firemen (who often do more EMT work than fight fires), more social workers in the schools, more translators to translate in City and State Offices for immigrants, translation of documents into lots of foreign languages, more intensive English as a second language for Immigrant children.

Why do you think Mayors of Every Big City are Pro-Immigrant. Please don't take my comments as anti-immigrant. Mayors like Immigration because State and City Unions love immigration because it helps drive up the population in Big Cities where the Population would be flat or dropping. I'd bet that US Born residents of New York City are likely to have 1-2 children at the most (I'll admit I'm guessing) and Immigrant families may be more likely to have 3-4 children. More Children equals More teachers and more Unionized school employees.

Its a fact of life that Organizations or people will do anything to survive. Immigrants come to the USA for a better life for themselves and their children. Big American Cities welcome the immigrants to keep the City Population growing and thats allows City/State Governments to expand to support the new residents.

It works well - Until it No Longer works!

When the immigration stops thats when it stops working.

Immigrants will wash dishes and toilets. Those are jobs most Americans think are beneath them, at least for another year or two.

Actually it's simpler than that. Everything in our economy is organized around growth...growth in the workforce, growth in production output, growth in the number of workers that fund social programs for those that have exited the workforce through retirement.

The system simply cannot function without this. So if the indigenous population fertility rate is insufficient to keep expanding the workforce the only alternative is to promote immigration, or else the system starts running in reverse...and leads to all sorts of political and economic horrors :eek: :p as we are discovering [as are the continental Europeans and the Japanese].

[BigBagel]

Re: "New York Must Declare a Financial Emergency"

New York City should do pretty well if the iTulip predictions about oil prices come true. 89$ will buy you a month of unlimited rides on NYC's subway and bus system. It's a 24 hour system and the subways alone move over 5 million passengers on a weekday.