Death throes of a once-great city

[Starving Steve]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Great photos of the train station.

Looks like the curse of the family mansion to me. One generation makes a lot of money and wastes a lot of it on a "fine house". The following generations are cursed with the excessive upkeep costs and the sense of obligation to the family to pass on this great treasure to future generations. Britain is full of it.

Why do the ridiculous excesses of previous generations take on this aura of holiness? Beats me.

I do love that stuff though, but am also very thankful New Zealand has so little of it. It does not help so much to dwell on past glories as it can distract from getting on with today's jobs.

Sad though.

I laugh to myself reading that the copper roof to the old Detroit train station disappeared. I imagine little gang-banger kids, in the middle of a dark night removing the roof of the entire train station.... And just how did they cart the roof off to the salvage yard? What salvage yard would buy it?????????? The story is even funnier when I think of the scrap dealer quietly buying the entire roof of the Detroit's train station and hiding the transaction from the police. How was that done?

Or maybe, it is best that we should not know. :rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Great photos of the train station.

Looks like the curse of the family mansion to me. One generation makes a lot of money and wastes a lot of it on a "fine house". The following generations are cursed with the excessive upkeep costs and the sense of obligation to the family to pass on this great treasure to future generations. Britain is full of it.

Why do the ridiculous excesses of previous generations take on this aura of holiness? Beats me.

I do love that stuff though, but am also very thankful New Zealand has so little of it. It does not help so much to dwell on past glories as it can distract from getting on with today's jobs.

Sad though.

Hey, I'd love to come visit New Zealand some day.

That said, that Detroit railroad depot is just outside of downtown, meaning there are no surrounding buildings taller than three stories about. From the freeway it is totally visible, to the point when I saw it for the first time you could see right through multiple floors.

I made a point of driving up close. The lead-up is a large U shape road, which must've been quite the sight back in the day. There's a glass atrium at the front, and every glass pane is broken. Then you look at the rest (EVERY other window) and they're all broken, on every floor. In the newspaper photo (from 2003) that is not the case yet.

I stopped on the giant U in the morning and took a picture, yet left the car running to "get out of Dodge" asap should some unsavory character come about (no one did.) I then drove around it, and sure enough EVERY window was broken.

Frankly, I'm surprised some Hollywood horror movie hasn't used the setting (exterior) yet. Detroit must've turned down multiple requests to do so.

Dearborn is another city notable. The vacant car factories sit, idle and rusting. The roads in the area are 6 lanes, presumably built to handle the thousands of workers and trucks transporting supplies and finished vehicles. It's was weird being the only car driving on all that roadway.

[rchdenton]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Ok Chief, well if you do make it to The Land That Time Forgot let me know and I'll shout you lunch. The South Island is a quiet backwater, there are only 800,000 or so of us which is a good thing really.

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Does the 800,000 number include hobbits? I understand "Lord of the Rings" was filmed there... My grandparents visited waaaaay back when and brought me back a t-shirt which said "New Zealand" and had a pretty basic outline/map of the country. I always found it odd to be wearing a country around...

[rchdenton]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Well, it is hard to say as hobbits are by nature secretive and tend to avoid the "big people" by and large but I have heard that filming will begin when the script is finished and funding finalised. Messrs Del Toro and Jackson are working on it. However that takes place mainly in the North Island which is considerably more populous. Apparently there are over 3 million people living there! Imagine that!

[fallout]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

To be fair, Detroit was dying long before Kwame Kilpatrick was even born. But let's not let facts interfere with a good diatribe.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

To be fair, Detroit was dying long before Kwame Kilpatrick was even born. But let's not let facts interfere with a good diatribe.

Precisely.

Detroit started dying when the actions of the management of the Big Three made clear to their customers and their employees that serving their customers with a quality product was not the primary concern of the company, generating cash to fund their lavish lifestyles was. The 'invisible hand' took care of the rest.

Blaming anyone else (including the unions, or the blacks who took over Detroit) misses the point entirely.

[Jay]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Milford and Doubtful Sounds are two of the most beautiful places on earth.

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Milford and Doubtful Sounds are two of the most beautiful places on earth.

Just wait until my fellow Americans show....

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/the-world-according-to-americans/

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Well, it is hard to say as hobbits are by nature secretive and tend to avoid the "big people" by and large but I have heard that filming will begin when the script is finished and funding finalised. Messrs Del Toro and Jackson are working on it. However that takes place mainly in the North Island which is considerably more populous. Apparently there are over 3 million people living there! Imagine that!

Any estimate on the number of sheep? I had heard there are a large number. And are there any Australian Rugby League teams based in New Zealand? Or, has that sport not been as accepted?

[rchdenton]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Sheep numbers are in decline, only 30 odd million left these days. When i first came here in 1990 there were somewhere nearer 80 million and the main roads across the South Island were often blocked by them as you drove around. Not any more I'm afraid. There are also very few single lane bridges shared with trains left. I mean that cannot be good can it?

It is a bit of a beef that certain friendly nations that should know better have protectionist policies in place to "protect their farmers' livelihoods" ie buy their farmer's votes. The US upsets its friends that way which is a pity.

Rugby has rather exploded here, league included. I stopped watching it long ago after it went professional I'm afraid.

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Wow, from 80 million sheep to 30 million in 20 years?!? That's a heck-of-a drop.

Sharing a bridge with a train? Yeah, I'd be weary of that one. Maybe that's how the sheep have been lost?

We do have a lot of price supports. And the answer to our recent financial meltdown was to spend, spend, spend ... It's an all-out feeding frenzy of special interests to get their share now. And UTTERLY amazing how there's so much squabbling over the health care bill when we've already burned through a few trillion in the past year. Heck, we should just add on free elective cosmetic surgery while we're at it. We'll have a whole generation who won't just be bones and hair in the grave, but saline bags as well... plus Viagara residue.

[nitroglycol]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

My remark about what capitalism and inequality have done to Detroit (and America) was not posted as a reply to the city council woman's remarks. (My brother's computer down here in Cal. does not retrieve YouTube segments.) Rather, my remark about what capitalism and inequality have done to Detroit (and America) was posted upon reflecting upon my childhood: when everyone could buy a new car and everyone had a job, when everyone had a small home, and everyone had savings in silver dollars or silver certificates at the bank. Everyone then had a future, and everyone then had a union card.

Now, after four decades of rightwing Republican rule in America, we have gun-toting, drug war, gang war, the hidden gulag of prisons, the McMansions, the bubble economy, the fiat money, the debt pyramids, the greed, the Ponzi-schemes, the de-regulation, the arrogance, the bail-outs for bankers, the bail-outs for Wall Street, the bankruptcy of California, the Proposition 13, the billion-dollar bonuses, the dark markets (after-the-bell), the lobbyists, the corruption, the dis-mantling of manufacturing, the derivative markets, on and on and on........

No, take a good look at what 40 years of Republican rule has done, from Ronald Reagan becoming Governor in California in 1968 to George Bush Jr. becoming President; from Jack Welch running GE into the ground to Bernie Made-off and his Ponzi-empire. This is what capitalism has done.

Let the world take note of what has happened to America and what de-regulated capitalism has meant in the long run. And let no Republican or libertarian deny the truth about what has happened, because the truth is evident for all to see.

Steve, I've often strongly disagreed with posts of yours, but here I agree with you almost completely. Not as much with some of your solutions:

- More atomic power: Maybe in some places, but much of North America has enough hydroelectric capacity that the difference can be made up via solar and wind (remember that hydro dams are energy storage devices as well as generation devices).

- More hydroelectric power: Yes, provided that it's done in a responsible manner (i.e. we shouldn't be damming up every river in the continent).

- More offshore drilling: Not my preference. A certain amount may be necessary during the transition, and it's better than the tar sands, but we should be putting more effort into alternatives.

- Desalination: Probably necessary in some parts (California and the Southwest in general come to mind).

- More land for cities to grow: Depends what you mean. If you mean infill, restoring brownfields, and things like that, then I heartily agree with you. If you mean paving over more and more farmland on the outskirts, then definitely not.

- A new Bretton Woods with some gold backing: I like this idea, depending on how it's handled. It has to be done in a way that no single power can destroy it by unilaterally walking out of the deal, as happened last time.

- Federal sales tax: Ten years ago I'd have said definitely not, but regressive or no, sales taxes are very effective at raising revenue.

- Balanced budget agreement: Might be OK depending on how it was worded. If it was averaged over a four year term, with exceptions for times of national emergency , I could live with that.

- Outlawing of influence peddling: Nice idea, but how would you even define influence peddling? Kickbacks, for instance, are generally illegal in most places anyhow. Election finance reform would be a good idea, at least.

- Better regulation of lobbyists: I agree in principle, but the devil is in the details, as with so many other things on your list.

- Return to the Glass-Steagall Act: Absolutely.

- Introducing confidence votes to the US system: I don't know. I certainly like the Westminster system myself, but the effort to get the necessary constitutional amendments might be better spent on other things, at least in the short run.

- National health insurance for all: Absolutely.

- A new public schools curriculum: The curriculum could probably use some work, but there's a gazillion ways to do that, some of them a lot better than others.

- Abolition of the US Senate: Not sure about that one. I see the downside of the Senate for sure (it gives small states disproportionate influence) but in a country with as many states as the US has that might be a good thing. I'd be happy to get rid of the Canadian Senate, though.

- Abolition of the Federal Reserve: Presumably some form of central bank would still be necessary, no?

I'd add a few of my own suggestions:

- Better public transit, both intraurban and interurban. In places with high population density (eastern US, the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, etc) high speed rail would be the way to go.
- More investment in solar, wind, and especially deep geothermal (i.e. drilling down till it's hot enough to boil water). Research on fusion wouldn't hurt either, though in the long run space-based solar power is probably the way to go.
- Establish a basic income.
- Better funding of basic scientific research.
- Continuation of the space program (see above for one of numerous reasons).
- Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. (Everyone, not just the US!)

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Unfortunately, next budget year may be even tighter...

[Starving Steve]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Precisely.

Detroit started dying when the actions of the management of the Big Three made clear to their customers and their employees that serving their customers with a quality product was not the primary concern of the company, generating cash to fund their lavish lifestyles was. The 'invisible hand' took care of the rest.

Blaming anyone else (including the unions, or the blacks who took over Detroit) misses the point entirely.

My mother bought a Pontiac Tempest, new from the dealer, back in 1964. The car was actually a very reliable car (although a gas-guzzler), and it ran almost trouble-free for 140,000 miles--- which was exceptional for cars of that era.

Nevertheless, when she put the key in the ignition to drive the new car off of the lot of the GM dealership, the car died at the curb. Zero miles on the car, and the car died! But even more amazing, the GM dealer refused to take care of the problem, and the car had to be towed by AAA to a repair shop!

The problem was faulty carburation design. The butterfly valve in the carberator would stick. This was a problem with the car from day-one. But GM never took care of the problem.

It was a relatively minor issue: Someone had to go outside, lift the hood of the car, pry the butterfly valve open in the carberator, and then the car would start. It always took two people to start the car--- a key turner-person inside the car to activate the ignition switch, and a butterfly valver opener-person outside the car, under the hood.

Needless to say, my mother was so annoyed by GM that she never went back to buy another GM product, ever in her life. That incident killed it.

Why should the customer have had to re-design the carberators for GM? It shows that GM didn't care, and it speaks volumes about GM quality and attitude back in 1964.