Death throes of a once-great city

[snakela]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Searched youtube for Detroit City Council and found this. I can't wait till they are all armed. It will be like an NWA album incarnate!

[cjppjc]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Searched youtube for Detroit City Council and found this. I can't wait till they are all armed. It will be like an NWA album incarnate!

Love the girl at the end. She should run for office ASAP.

[fallout]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Detroit is an amazing tale, historically, sociologically, anthropologically....a modern ruin, from a time long past, much like Pompei or the Acropolis. Sure, people still lived there, much as people still lived in what was once Rome during the Dark Ages (and pulled stones from the Colosseum to use to build huts with). Corruption, redlining, white flight, suburbanization, the decline of America's smokestack economy and manufacturing sector, greed, poverty, the interstate system, racism, entropy, maintenance crisises, crime, riots, obsolescence, abandonment, all the basic fundamental forces were there, great subjects for discussion and extrapolation.

Once the 4th largest city in the US, it has lost more than half its population since the mid-1950's, it has been rotting away more or less for six decades now. Much of it has simply been burned and/or bulldozed, then buried, making reuse of most properties unlikely or prohibitively expensive. Industrial brownfields are common. On the flip side, many see Detroit as an example of a post-cheap-peak-oil America, more a vision of the future than one of the past (for all it's warts). It's truly a marvelous place to visit, if only for the decay, rot, and architecture, a real window on the past.
Shelley's "Ozymandius" readily comes to mind.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Love the girl at the end. She should run for office ASAP.

The girl at the end has principles. She may have had notes, but that was from the heart. God bless her parents.

Monica Conyers has since pleaded guilty to federal bribery and conspiracy charges and is awaiting sentencing.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

..... It's truly a marvelous place to visit, if only for the decay, rot, and architecture, a real window on the past.
Shelley's "Ozymandius" readily comes to mind.

Nice reference fallout - I agree it is quite appriopriate!

[Scot]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

It's not just the tragedy in Detroit, but now witness the unemployment and the gangs, even in Silicon Valley, California. Witness the half-empty freeways--- even during rush-hour--- or witnessing New Orleans, still not re-built and still without proper levies, even after an uncounted number of thousands died from Hurricane Katrina. One has to wonder about the future of capitalism.... And why should de-regulated capitalism have a future, especially after this performance in America?

Capitalism did its best to support radically leftist cities like Detroit. At some point it just couldn't be squeezed any further.

The real problem is the poor performance of Democracy and it's devolution into "you got it -- I want it" politics.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Capitalism did its best to support radically leftist cities like Detroit. At some point it just couldn't be squeezed any further.

The real problem is the poor performance of Democracy and it's devolution into "you got it -- I want it" politics.

I hate to sound like an old Franklin Delano Roosevelt New Deal Democrat, but really: America would be much better for everyone to live in if there would be a strong social safety net for everyone, and if everyone were to have more or less the same economic outcome in life.

In California, taxes on homes have to go back to at least their level before 1978. That means Proposition 13 (passed in 1978) has to be repealed, and the rich who live under the tax-shelter of Prop. 13 now should be taxed to the maximum.

We have the result of Reaganomics now, three decades later, clear for all to see: gangs, guns, prisons, class warfare, chaos, mass poverty, starvation, mass resentment, mass bankruptcy, and a total breakdown of the society. And meanwhile, the rich are richer than ever, more arrogant and independent than ever, and even with bigger rip-offs, bonuses, and Ponzi-schemes than ever before seen in America.

If history has taught the world anything, it is that the American version of fully de-regulated capitalism is a complete failure. It leads to social upheavel and misery...... The lesson is that the American version of capitalism is no model for any nation to emulate.

The old motto of the Republican Party in America is that "equal men are not free". Three decades after Reaganomics, wouldn't it be fair to ask: Just how free are the unequal people of America now?

[don]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Detroit is an amazing tale, historically, sociologically, anthropologically....a modern ruin, from a time long past, much like Pompei or the Acropolis. Sure, people still lived there, much as people still lived in what was once Rome during the Dark Ages (and pulled stones from the Colosseum to use to build huts with). Corruption, redlining, white flight, suburbanization, the decline of America's smokestack economy and manufacturing sector, greed, poverty, the interstate system, racism, entropy, maintenance crisises, crime, riots, obsolescence, abandonment, all the basic fundamental forces were there, great subjects for discussion and extrapolation.

Once the 4th largest city in the US, it has lost more than half its population since the mid-1950's, it has been rotting away more or less for six decades now. Much of it has simply been burned and/or bulldozed, then buried, making reuse of most properties unlikely or prohibitively expensive. Industrial brownfields are common. On the flip side, many see Detroit as an example of a post-cheap-peak-oil America, more a vision of the future than one of the past (for all it's warts). It's truly a marvelous place to visit, if only for the decay, rot, and architecture, a real window on the past.
Shelley's "Ozymandius" readily comes to mind.

What comes to my mind is if Detroit were an island, it would be Easter. A long lost civilization that had eaten its tail.

[Billwhc]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

The sad point in all this is that Detroit has received, I believe more Federal and State funds than any other city, by size, in the United States. All these funds have done nothing to help this corrupt city. Bad and corrupt leadership breeds disaster... just look at Zimbabwe.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Searched youtube for Detroit City Council and found this. I can't wait till they are all armed. It will be like an NWA album incarnate!

Here's a news article on that same interaction between Ms. Conyers and those eighth graders: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/16066427/detail.html

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Capitalism did its best to support radically leftist cities like Detroit. At some point it just couldn't be squeezed any further.

The real problem is the poor performance of Democracy and it's devolution into "you got it -- I want it" politics.

Yup, you got it. Detroit symbolizes why democracy, such as it was, is doomed. Would anyone have bother fighting in any major wars of the past had they known people like this city councilwoman would end up in any position of governmental authority? Likewise, no one will bother fighting to preserve this ridiculous system of government we have today.

[BigBagel]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/op...erbert.html?hp

Good New York Times column about Detroit being emblematic of the nation's hollowed out economy.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/op...erbert.html?hp

Good New York Times column about Detroit being emblematic of the nation's hollowed out economy.

Yep; the sad thing is, this is just boilerplate. The template for this article could be coded up with the following argument list (pardon my non-sexy MATLAB):

MyArticleOnDetroitDemise.Decade = '2000s';
MyArticleOnDetroitDemise.OutOfTownJournalist = 'Herbert';
MyArticleOnDetroitDemise.Paper = 'NYT';
MyArticleOnDetroitDemise.IGrewUpHere = 'BerkelyProf';
MyArticleOnDetroitDemise.RuinsVisited{1} = 'Train Depot';

The code logic would combine the variables into a standard conclusion that it's a tragedy, but nothing is being done about it.

The country has to get past this storyline, and get to radical, nation-changing solutions to the problem that we don't make enough things the world will employ our citizens to make. Until that happens, you can run this program every couple of years with the exact same outcome.

[rjwjr]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

America would be much better for everyone to live in if there would be a strong social safety net for everyone, and if everyone were to have more or less the same economic outcome in life.

This is likely the most ridiculous statement you have made on this site to date...and you have made some incredibly ridiculous statements.

There's no big debate necessary about Detroit, nor is there any deep thinking needed. Conyers is a joke. She is obviously a mental midget and morally misguided. She should have never been elected in the first place. When the electorate continues to elect representatives like her and Kwame Kilpatrick, well, you get what you deserve.

Detroit is not a failure of republicans or democrats. Detroit is not a failure of capitalism or communism. Detroit is an example of what occurs when morally bankrupt, low intellect persons are provided positions of power and decision. In fact, Steve, it is an excellent example of why "equality of outcome" doesn't work. Conyers doesn't deserve to have her position. It's that simple.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

This is likely the most ridiculous statement you have made on this site to date...and you have made some incredibly ridiculous statements.

Funny how people hear different things from the same statement - I took his observation about generally equal outcomes as an indictment of the FIRE economy. In the good old days, the only guys who were 'rich', and there weren't that many, seemed to generally have come come by it through hard work or risk (doctors, capitalists/business owners) - in the FIRE economy, anyone could get rich just moving money around in one way or another and skimming - no sacrifice (hard work/risk), zero added value. Everyone saw 'regular' people making serious money without having to sacrifice and started thinking 'why not me?'; they needed a big house and a BMW to be considered okay, not like before when we were all pretty much middle class and semi-content.

Or not, I'm starting to give up thinking I can figure out what's going on.