Death throes of a once-great city

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

I did say 10 years....Oops :rolleyes:

My wife and I bought an old mansion in Detroit in 1995 in a neighborhood of 10K+ square foot mansions built by auto exec money in the 20's; I heard all this stuff about Detroit gentrification and believed the window of opportunity was starting to close. I watched good things happen in DC, and a with a new suburb-friendly mayor and a lot of buzz about young people moving in, I really thought Detroit was headed there.

14 years later, the house I bought and moved out of 10 years later is now listed for less than I bought it for back then (it had tripled, then started to slowly fall; the economic collapse finished it), 1 out of 10 of the homes in the neighborhood (google Palmer Woods, it's an amazing collection of mansions) are in foreclosure, and this is a neighborhood that council members feel the need to be armed in.

Bottom line is, Detroiters hear initiatives year after year. They're all well-meaning. They're also all unable to stop a terrible, inexorable decline. For every 'young, creative type' that wants to explore the possibilities of Detroit, there are 100 impoverished/maleducated/hopeless residents already there. The one constant I've seen in the 17 years I've lived here is the false hope of 'renewal' crashing up against the reality of grinding poverty and joblessness on a mass scale.

I think a city literally 'dies' when anarchy reigns. City council members personally arming themselves is pretty compelling evidence that Detroit is almost there.

[rjwjr]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

The effort, called Selling Detroit, is upfront about its intent.

Maybe the advertisers got the intent wrong. I think selling Detroit is a fine idea.

Japan may have an interest if we emphasize the car-making infrastructure. Canada may have an interest as a toxic waste dump so as not to diminish their own beautiful lands. Let's call it a reservation and give it back to the Indians...we could use more tax-free cigarettes and casinos. If we want to keep it, let's ship Ray Nagin, mayor of New Orleans, up there since he's an apparent expert with "chocolate cities".

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans. This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans"........"This city will be chocolate at the end of the day."


Maybe Nagin should at least be consulted on this Selling Detroit campaign so he can tell us God's wishes for that city also.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

I googled Palmer Woods, Detroit, and the story was incredible: mansions that would cost $20 millions of dollars in the SF Bay Area are as low as $175,000, list price.

I recall the Roach Motel: "The roaches can check-in, but they can't check-out."

When I was a kid growing-up in San Jose, California, back in the early 1960s, I used to listen to the AM radio late at night. And guess what: If I turned my clock-radio in a certain direction late at night, I could pick-up the distant radio signal broadcast from WJR: "The Great Voice of the Great Lakes".

Detroit is a metropolis of memories, ghosts, decay, old radio programmes, rust, abandonment, murder, and mayhem. And for $175,000, you can live like Micheal Corleone, the Godfather--- except in Detroit, you would be living all by yourself, alone, in a cemetery..... Recalling the famous line uttered by Micheal Corleone, "Why would I be blessed with a deal such as this?"

The programme from WJR was called: "Music-'till-Dawn", all-night music from Broadway's greatest musicals. And I picked-up the signal in California, 2600 miles away, on my old clock-radio.

Almost half-a-century later, the music in the night on AM radio is gone. Much of Detroit is gone. And really, for better or for worse, much of America has disappeared too.

[MulaMan]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Those old mansions in Detroit make great grow houses.

[roxtar]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

...but it is certainly easier to make things happen there than in most places because the hand of government weighs less heavily.

Were it not for my physical inability to handle the extreme winters it sounds like the place I'd want to be.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

I googled Palmer Woods, Detroit, and the story was incredible: mansions that would cost $20 millions of dollars in the SF Bay Area are as low as $175,000, list price.

I recall the Roach Motel: "The roaches can check-in, but they can't check-out."

This is the reason we left, fear of being unable to move once the property tax story on our homes got out - the taxes in Detroit were low for the region because the property values were so low (originally) that the take was low, but the rate was 50% higher than the suburbs, so once the house values rose the property tax amounts were astronomical. Now the taxes are still high (Michigan laws - don't ask) but the values are plummeting. "Can't check out".

When I was a kid growing-up in San Jose, California, back in the early 1960s, I used to listen to the AM radio late at night. And guess what: If I turned my clock-radio in a certain direction late at night, I could pick-up the distant radio signal broadcast from WJR: "The Great Voice of the Great Lakes".

Detroit is a metropolis of memories, ghosts, decay, old radio programmes, rust, abandonment, murder, and mayhem. And for $175,000, you can live like Micheal Corleone, the Godfather--- except in Detroit, you would be living all by yourself, alone, in a cemetery.....

It's like living with a casket containing your father's body in the living room. The reminder of the loss never goes away, the reliving of past glory never stops, no one can move forward. The work of the industrial giants of this country has cast a physical shadow, and you can't rebuild that which cast the shadow.

[lsa420]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Those old mansions in Detroit make great grow houses.

What is that supposed to mean?

[don]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

What is that supposed to mean?

Think Mary-Wana ;)

[BigBagel]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

The Pontiac Silverdome has sold for $583,000 in auction. The minimum pay for an NFL player is $295,000. The lowest paid player on the Lions could have qualified for financing and brought the place.

[jneal3]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

The Pontiac Silverdome has sold for $583,000 in auction. The minimum pay for an NFL player is $295,000. The lowest paid player on the Lions could have qualified for financing and brought the place.

...and it cost $56M (in 1975 $$) to build. Upkeep was $1.5M/yr. Sounds a lot like the deal that BlackRock made to 'buy' Chrysler for a cool -$650M from Daimler (that's negative $650M).

[lsa420]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Think Mary-Wana ;)

I think about it all the time, don.:eek:

[dcarrigg]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

I noticed that Canada across the river is all farmland, that would mean the soil in that region is good for farming. Maybe convert Detroit into farmland?

Quite fitting with today's headline in the Michigan Citizen

Detroit: Farm city
By Eric T. Campbell
The Michigan Citizen

DETROIT — Post-industrial Detroit is the home of a growing sustainable living and community gardening movement.

Now a Detroit businessman is hoping to deepen that effort with a project that would continue to change the landscape of the city.

Detroit resident John Hantz, CEO of Southfield-based financial holding company the Hantz Group, wants to build the “world’s largest urban farm.” The plan proposes to address persistent issues such as food security, blight removal, consolidation of city services and job creation.

Preliminary plans for Hantz Farms include a central farm and several extension farms located across the city on land that is vacant or abandoned. The operation would cultivate acres of vegetables, blocks of fruit orchards, pumpkin patches and even Christmas trees. Indoor facilities will extend the growing season to 11 months out of the year.

Working with Wayne County Land Bank and the Detroit Economic Growth Corporation, Hantz Farms will accumulate and consolidate the land necessary to begin operations. In recent years, Detroit city officials have criticized the Wayne County Land Bank for circumventing the city’s own ability to amass land for economic and community development.

Seventy acres of vacant and abandoned land is needed for the first phase of the plan located on Detroit’s lower east side.

Matt Allen, Senior Vice President of Hantz Farms and former spokesperson for Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, says the vision for the farm is inspired by socio-economic challenges specific to Detroit and the devastation which has left its mark.

“Our generation has lived to see what a post-industrial city can go through,” said Allen during a recent interview. “But one thing that Detroit has that other cities don’t have is an abundance of land. There’s no other city in the world that could support what we’re proposing.”

Allen says that this vision can be accomplished within a modest-scale, corporate model while addressing the economic realities of residents on the ground. The farm will be staffed and operated by Detroiters, potentially providing a source of hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs.

“This was always conceived as an entrepreneurial endeavor,” Allen said during a recent interview. “But it’s all Detroit and Michigan based. We’re committed to making this a profitable, growing venture. We have an abundance of nonprofits in this town. What we have a depletion of is revenue generating business — we’re running them out of here.”

In addition to the logistical and imminent domain challenges associated with launching the “world’s largest urban farm,” Hantz Farm representatives are waging a public relations campaign to counter the perception that their corporate model will eclipse many of Detroit’s long-established, organic-based community gardens.

Not everyone has been swept away by the optimistic tone present in Hantz Farms’ presentation. Mailk Yakini of the Black Community Food Security Network is part of a recent resurgence in organic, community-based farming in Detroit. He says that the lack of community outreach is indicative of Hantz’s approach in general.

“I think they made a big mistake by not coming to the community first and finding out what they want,” Yakini told the Michigan Citizen.

Additionally, Yakini says that he’s concerned about Hantz Farms’ lack of commitment to organic farming methods and the potential for displacement of Detroit residents.

“On the surface there are multiple contradictions,” Yakini continues. “I hope the city will be mindful and not just consider jobs, but work to empower the community.”

But Allen says Hantz Group is a corporation looking to change the corporate model. He insists that Hantz Farms is not here to crowd out an already established field of garden programs and resources.

Rather than struggling politically and philosophically with the smaller, organic movement, Hantz Farms representatives believe the company is filling a void left by larger supermarket chains who abandoned the city in the 80s.

“We want it to be a place committed to the education of sustainable cities, fresh, local fruits and vegetables, which are nurturing to our communities,” Allen says. “Once we’re up and running we see ourselves being part of a larger cooperative, working with some of the nonprofits and community based groups who have already established themselves.”

For more information on Hantz Farms, visit www.hantzfarmsdetroit.com.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

There is a major concern with farming any of the empty lots/land within Detroit.

Most major cities have significant but probably below clean up levels but measurable amounts of contamination in the soils....some worse than others. Here in NJ the joke is you take a sample of soil anywhere in Newark and you'll find PCBs. At a minimum, you would expect there to be lead in the soils.

Unless you bring in clean soil, I would not want a large portion of my diet to come from city grown crops grown in such soils.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

Were it not for my physical inability to handle the extreme winters it sounds like the place I'd want to be.

It isn't just the cold winters--- which aren't all that cold in Detroit compared to a Winnipeg winter--- it is the salt in the snow and the salt-slush in the gutters. The salt ruins everything it touches: your shoes, your clothes, your cars, your rugs, your city's bridges, your city's cement roads, your grass, your plants, everything. And the salt re-appears, over and over again, rusting-out and staining everything, until maybe June when the summer rainy season in the Rust Belt finally washes-away the last of it.... But then it all begins again, next November, and on and on it goes, year after year.

Add to the salt, the sand on the roads, the salt/sand blast and spray from the traffic, the grey skys, the despair, the unemployment, the poverty, the inequality, the decay, the drug dealers, the hand guns, and on top of this Mount Everest of misery: the relentless grinding-away of inflation; one may begin to understand why Detroit is now a cemetery, and why the rest of America is in permanent decline.

It's not just the tragedy in Detroit, but now witness the unemployment and the gangs, even in Silicon Valley, California. Witness the half-empty freeways--- even during rush-hour--- or witnessing New Orleans, still not re-built and still without proper levies, even after an uncounted number of thousands died from Hurricane Katrina. One has to wonder about the future of capitalism.... And why should de-regulated capitalism have a future, especially after this performance in America?

[GRG55]

Re: Death throes of a once-great city

It isn't just the cold winters--- which aren't all that cold in Detroit compared to a Winnipeg winter--- it is the salt in the snow and the salt-slush in the gutters. The salt ruins everything it touches: your shoes, your clothes, your cars, your rugs, your city's bridges, your city's cement roads, your grass, your plants, everything. And the salt re-appears, over and over again, rusting-out and staining everything, until maybe June when the summer rainy season finally washes-away the last of it.... But then it all begins again, next November, and on and on it goes, year after year.

Add to the salt, the sand on the roads, the salt/sand blast and spray from the traffic, the grey skys, the despair, the unemployment, the poverty, the inequality, the decay, the drug dealers, the hand guns, and on top of this Mount Everest of misery: the relentless grinding-away of inflation; one may begin to understand why Detroit is now a cemetery, and why the rest of America is in permanent decline.

Wow. I used to believe that they put salt on the roads so the cars would rust faster and keep Motor City humming turning out replacements. Little did I realize that ruined shoes and pant cuffs could lead to the downfall of the entire region. Presumably a healthy market in gun oil keeps the pistols from rusting? :rolleyes: