Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

[Rajiv]

With all US Airlines now having "Cashless Cabins" it seems to imply that the US $ note is no longer legal tender. If this is not the case, there appears to be room for a class action suit against the airlines.

[pianodoctor]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

I went through something similar to that years ago. One issue was a local community college that refused to accept anything but a credit card for some fees. I had cash, but did not have a card nor any desire for one. I went through rigamarole and then contacted a U.S. attorney with the "legal tender" theory. Basically the College got around the issue by saying that if I drove a long distance away to another campus of theirs, they would accept the cash there, and therefore were not in violation of the Legal Tender Act. (BTW, this campus had a large number of credit card account recruiters on campus trying to sign up students most of the year).

Another issue I had was with the local county government who refused to accept cash in payment of a traffic ticket. Their reasoning was that if I paid with cash, their employees would steal it. So their policy was to state not to use cash. If you did so anyway, and the money got stolen (and you didn't get credited with having paid the ticket), that is your own fault.

[metalman]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?



'Legal tender or forced tender is an offered payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt, and have the debt remain in force.^[1] Currency is the most common form of legal tender.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

[Rajiv]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

Exactly my point!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

As I have suspected for sometime now, Rajiv is smarter than I am.

I don't get your point, metalman.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

I think it says in the U.S. Constitution that the U.S. Treasury shall issue no other money than gold and silver, but no-one follows the Constitution in the U.S. So I am not surprised to see that "legal tender" has become a rather meaningless and archaic term on currency.

I called the U.S. Constitution just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, and that is all that it really is. The government just does what it wants to do, and that is the story in America.

Now, the government in America changes contracts at-will. Prior contract means little or nothing to them. So no wonder, U.S. businesses are moving to other countries, especially China.

[metalman]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

I think it says in the U.S. Constitution that the U.S. Treasury shall issue no other money than gold and silver, but no-one follows the Constitution in the U.S. So I am not surprised to see that "legal tender" has become a rather meaningless and archaic term on currency.

I called the U.S. Constitution just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, and that is all that it really is. The government just does what it wants to do, and that is the story in America.

Now, the government in America changes contracts at-will. Prior contract means little or nothing to them. So no wonder, U.S. businesses are moving to other countries, especially China.

thx, steve. exactly my point. the $1 bill was once backed by gold. that was the contract. now the contact is that it must be accepted as payment for debts, but that is no longer true. the $ bill is a still a contract but it means nothing if it is not enforced.

[Rajiv]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

That is why a class action suit is appropriate.

[Fiat Currency]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

This is a favourite "fun" topic of mine.

(In Canada) A retailer can refuse "legal tender" BEFORE the transaction/service is rendered. For instance - if I go to buy a pack of gum with a $100 bill it can legally be refused and I don't get the gum.

However, if I pump gas into my car first (very common here) or eat a meal in your restaurant ... you may refuse my legal tender BUT I can legally walk away without any ramifications.

As a result - I carry a lot of $100 bills (and still have several $1,000 bills) just for "fun". It's particularly satisfying at Government agencies like the Post Office etc. who sometimes deliver the service first ... and then ask for payment. Imagine - a Gov't agency refusing its own "legal tender". The irony of it all.

A true currency needs no decree to determine its value.

[Sapiens]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

'Legal tender or forced tender is an offered payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt, and have the debt remain in force.^[1] Currency is the most common form of legal tender.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

Ah, not to be technical, but that little sentence can be highly deceiving and the use and possession of those notes can have deep legal implications.

Note that is says "for all debts"... and it does not say "in payment".

Critical point, your debt is not paid until the other party redeems your debt.

[pwcmba]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

I think it says in the U.S. Constitution that the U.S. Treasury shall issue no other money than gold and silver, but no-one follows the Constitution in the U.S. So I am not surprised to see that "legal tender" has become a rather meaningless and archaic term on currency.

I called the U.S. Constitution just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, and that is all that it really is. The government just does what it wants to do, and that is the story in America.

Now, the government in America changes contracts at-will. Prior contract means little or nothing to them. So no wonder, U.S. businesses are moving to other countries, especially China.

Another technical point: The US Treasury did not issue that note, the Federal Reserve Bank is the issuer.

[AlexPKeaton]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

I almost posted something like this on the "cashless bank" thread.

The Wall Street Journal (mouthpiece of the FIRE economy and contributor to the current crisis and long-term destruction of the production/consumption economy and US middle-class) reported a few years ago on a restaurant that that programmed its cash register to round bills to the nearest $0.05, and then faced sanctions by the Treasury Department (or the Secret Service?).

That seemed kind of odd...as long as they accepted cash, I fail to see what's wrong with a private business adopting a rounding policy.

[MarkL]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

Nobody here seems concerned about the FREEDOM of the parties to choose how they wish to contract with each other... or the RIGHT of the vendor to do business the way he wants.

If I want to sign a contract with my neighbor trading chickens eggs for cow's milk I should have the right to. And if I want to run an airline that finds it most efficient to only transact in credit cards, I should have the right to. This is how capitalist edges are obtained.

The government may regulate away other currencies, but come on now... credit cards are denominated in dollars as are checks (and even computer bits), all which have been being used to transfer dollars for decades.

Personally, I'm all for freedom. Particularly with the dollar potentially crashing, I don't want to hold them, and don't want the gov to force me to take 'em. Screw making people take physical dollars when they are, using modern technology, relatively easily forgeably, comparatively unsafe to transport, and in may circumstances, inconvenient, not to mention potentially going to be devalued (more) at some point.

[Sapiens]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

Nobody here seems concerned about the FREEDOM of the parties to choose how they wish to contract with each other... or the RIGHT of the vendor to do business the way he wants.

You are free to do business as you want, as long as you do not injure anyone else; however, if you are doing business and exchanging United States' liabilities and/or evidences of debt like Federal Reserve notes, they have a say in the matter, even using their banking services brings you under their jurisdiction.

The following book gives a very clear and straightforward explanation of the matter:

They Own It All (Including You!)
http://www.newpeopleorder.com/

Cheers,

-Sapiens

[Sharky]

Re: Are US $ notes no longer legal tender?

With all US Airlines now having "Cashless Cabins" it seems to imply that the US $ note is no longer legal tender. If this is not the case, there appears to be room for a class action suit against the airlines.

How does it imply that the USD is no longer legal tender?

Legal tender laws primarily apply to the settlement of debt. What debt is being incurred in a cashless cabin? Airlines could insist on being paid in bananas, or whatever they want, as long as they declare the fact in advance -- that's the nature of trade.

However, if you were to sue them, then the court can only force the payment of the suit in USD; that's another aspect of legal tender. A court cannot force you to pay in bananas, etc.