One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

[snakela]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Here comes another gun grab effort in the US. First they trickle out the news reports, then the flood and doublespeak. next the laws.

Stock up on your hi-cap mags and "scary" weapons while you can.

[sishya]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Here's another piece of news on the guy that they are looking for. Apparently his life sentence when he was locked up in Arkansas was commuted by none other than right winger Mike Huckabee. Aren't these guys supposed to by tough on crime?:eek:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Susp...-78182797.html

Mike Huckabee is not a red meat Republican. But a "real" compassionate one.
It was a genuine mistake on Huckabee's behalf.
USA would have been far better if we had him as President.
I have a nagging conspiracy theory that Rich & Powerfull Men purposely derailed Huckabee's chance by running Mitt Romney.

[Camtender]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

The point of having guns is to make us safe from the government :eek:

I read the 2nd Amendment as......... If the people are armed, the will of the people cannot be circumvented. (Wait, let me qualify that statement......cannot be circumvented except for some material issues such as the will of the current administration, the banks, wall street, entitlement programs, the debasement of our currency, the future of our children and grandchildren, gun rights and.................................)

“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.” – Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto WWII

[cjppjc]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Mike Huckabee is not a red meat Republican. But a "real" compassionate one.
It was a genuine mistake on Huckabee's behalf.
USA would have been far better if we had him as President.
I have a nagging conspiracy theory that Rich & Powerfull Men purposely derailed Huckabee's chance by running Mitt Romney.

That's funny because I see the EXACT opposite. I think Huckabee is an opportunist and a phoney. If anything Huckabee stopped Romney and allowed McCain to win the nomination.

I will admit a bias in that I thought Ron Paul would do much better in Iowa, and Huckabee got the bounce and media coverage I wanted for my guy.

[lurker]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

The point of having guns is to make us safe from the government :eek:

Then it's not working very well. Last time I looked the government had spent us all into bankruptcy and given the loot to their friends in the finance and military industrial complexes.

[raja]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Originally Posted by raja
The point of having guns is to make us safe from the government :eek:

Then it's not working very well. Last time I looked the government had spent us all into bankruptcy and given the loot to their friends in the finance and military industrial complexes.

Right . . . .

Guns are there as a last resort, when the government won't listen to reason.

But there will be no reason to listen to . . . until the more informed in society educate the less informed, and the the People force the government -- through peaceful political process -- to do the right thing. If the government won't listen, it's 2nd Amendment time.

The more informed are folks like us at iTulip. We've got some work to do . . . or suffer the consequences of inaction. We're going to get poorer in many ways, it's just a question of degree. Our choice . . . .

[flintlock]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

US record:

No Hitler like tyrants ( yet!)
No Coups
No Pogroms
No Genocide

Possible without armed citizens?

[c1ue]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Another instance - this time in Alaska

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100110/ap_on_re_us/us_alaska_officer_shot;_ylt=AtfikIr8Cz73WE7IuqbTGZ Ss0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNxcGRodWtnBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMT EwL3VzX2FsYXNrYV9vZmZpY2VyX3Nob3QEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBv cHVsYXIEY3BvcwM4BHBvcwM1BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW 5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGsDcG9saWNlc2F5YW5j

Officer Jason Allen, who is expected to recover, was parked in his marked cruiser in a residential neighborhood near downtown after taking a domestic violence report on an incident that had occurred in the past. Anchorage patrol officers generally work alone.
Several men pulled up next to the driver's side in a dark-colored sedan shortly before 2 a.m. and the front passenger fired some rounds. Allen was struck possibly five times in both arms and his torso, said Lt. Dave Koch.
Police said none of the men in the car said anything and their motive is unknown. But police do not believe the officer was a target chosen at random.
"He was sitting in a police car, he was in a police uniform. He was shot because he was a police officer," Koch said. "There's nothing random about it."

...

Parker said the incident was very similar to an Oct. 31 ambush on a parked patrol car in Seattle in which Officer Timothy Brenton was killed and another officer wounded. Christopher Monfort has pleaded not guilty to aggravated murder and attempted murder in that case.
The Seattle attack was the first of three on police officers in Seattle and nearby Pierce County last year that left six officers dead, including four gunned down in late November as they were doing paperwork in a coffee shop near Tacoma.

Maoist movement starting?

Crazy "F*** the Police" survivalists?

No Pogroms
No Genocide

I think a large number of dead (American) Indians would dispute these 2 parts...

[flintlock]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Okay. You're right, it was just like Rwanda and the Holocaust. Right down to the part where the Americans put the Indian babies into gas chambers and then burned them in ovens. My bad.:rolleyes:

Atrocities yes. But genocide? It was never the policy of the US government to extinguish the Indians. Only to steal their land. They (justifiably) refused to comply with the government policies, so they were forcibly overcome. 9 of 10 Indians did comply with the policies and were not slaughtered, but rather fed clothed and sheltered, albeit in awful conditions, due to corruption. I don't remember reading about the Hutus setting up reservations for the Tutsi's and providing education for them. And yes the Nazi's did set up "Reservations" for the Jews. Only they called them concentration camps and the goal was not to control them but to eventually eliminate them completely. What happened to Native Americans was bad . No doubt. But to compare it to actual genocide is to belittle what real victims of genocide went through. I'm well versed on Native American history. It's a complicated one. But that's not what this thread was about.

My point was that we never have had the kind of rampant bloodletting that Europe, Asia, and Africa has seen against the civilian population. The US would not exist as a nation if the civilian population had not been armed from the start. Period.

[c1ue]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Okay. You're right, it was just like Rwanda and the Holocaust. Right down to the part where the Americans put the Indian babies into gas chambers and then burned them in ovens. My bad.:rolleyes:

Given that there weren't gas chambers at the time - it is safe to say that all modern tools available were used to 'make space' for settlers, not so unlike the 'new tools' used by the Nazis.

Similarly the reservation system was set up in 1851. What happened in the century before that?

I do agree that there was not a open governmental decision to exterminate the American Indians; by the same token the results were identical. And the Indians were armed.

For all the later reservation system and what not - are you saying that there are as many American Indians now as in the past? Even on a per tribe basis?

Ghettoes are ghettoes.

[flintlock]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

Given that there weren't gas chambers at the time - it is safe to say that all modern tools available were used to 'make space' for settlers, not so unlike the 'new tools' used by the Nazis.

Similarly the reservation system was set up in 1851. What happened in the century before that?

I do agree that there was not a open governmental decision to exterminate the American Indians; by the same token the results were identical. And the Indians were armed.

For all the later reservation system and what not - are you saying that there are as many American Indians now as in the past? Even on a per tribe basis?

Ghettoes are ghettoes.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not trying to defend the US in Indian matters.

It's all just semantics anyway. Evil is evil.

As far as the Indians being armed. Remember, the history in the area later to become the US goes back to the 1600s. Indians had a rather poor armament of clubs, spears, and rather weak bow and arrows at that time. (And an even worse sense of tactics and strategy). It would be the mid 18th century before they even began to get firearms in significant numbers. By then their numbers and any potential military power had dwindled to a point even being armed with UZIs, it would not have turned the tide. Fact is, a united and well led Indian population in the 1600s could have wiped out the Whites in a matter of days. But then Indians on the continent could never have been considered united. In fact they were at constant war with themselves, with vicious wars of extermination that could equally have been called genocide. Some of the Plains Indian tribes actually originated much farther east. They had been forced west by other stronger tribes. Of course they then forced out existing tribes, (which is how the Arikara Scouts that rode with Custer became the mortal enemy of the Sioux).

As far as the number of Indians remaining, depends on how you count it. My G G Grandmother was a full blooded Cherokee. Does that mean all her descendants are Indians? You'd certainly think so if you attended one of my family Reunions, where at least a third have very strong Indian features. I think if you counted Indians this way you'd see more living now than ever existed in 1600. North American Indians were assimilated, not exterminated, despite all the revisionist history. Those remaining on the reservations do so out of choice. There are no bars or fences.

[c1ue]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

As far as the number of Indians remaining, depends on how you count it. My G G Grandmother was a full blooded Cherokee. Does that mean all her descendants are Indians? You'd certainly think so if you attended one of my family Reunions, where at least a third have very strong Indian features. I think if you counted Indians this way you'd see more living now than ever existed in 1600. North American Indians were assimilated, not exterminated, despite all the revisionist history. Those remaining on the reservations do so out of choice. There are no bars or fences.

From Wiki - the Census numbers show around 1.5M to 2.8M depending on inclusion of the 'mixes'.

So it depends on how many American Indians were alive in 1600. The lower estimates I see on the Internet show around 1M (post Columbus plagues vs. peak population) - even were this true then clearly assimilation hasn't worked so well. After all, the US population has more than tripled in just the last 100 years.

[flintlock]

Re: One officer killed, one wounded in Leschi shooting

From Wiki - the Census numbers show around 1.5M to 2.8M depending on inclusion of the 'mixes'.

So it depends on how many American Indians were alive in 1600. The lower estimates I see on the Internet show around 1M (post Columbus plagues vs. peak population) - even were this true then clearly assimilation hasn't worked so well. After all, the US population has more than tripled in just the last 100 years.

Yeah, but was that a result of some master plan to reduce Indian births? I agree they have not always done so well, but some times its hard to place the reason.

Lets be realistic. Do you really think we'd see Indians still riding around on Ponies and living in Tipi's if they'd just been left well alone? History is just way too complex to try and go back and keep score. How many tribes did Genghis Khan exterminate? But then he also left a legacy which remains today. All we can try to do now is avoid the mistakes of the past. This is getting way off topic, so I'll shut up now.