Corporatism vs Capitalism

[MulaMan]

Two videos - looks like more people are starting to realize that America is no longer a capitalist country.

Seems that corporatism is becoming the mainstream label, this is great in my opinion because it helps break the left vs right nonsensical simplification in America.

Video #1: Left vs. Right, Micheal Moore vs. Ron Paul on Larry King. Both agree on the problem but disagree on the solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hn6ad4_FzM

Video #2: United Breaks Guitars - Corporatism at it's finest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo


My take: corporations have gained control over individuals through the ownership of health care, legal, technology, patents, government regulation / de-regulation, ect..

Health Care is a major barrier to entreprenurial activity in America, as are legal costs (over regulation), government control of markets (under regulation), ect..

And so this is why Obama's universal health care with a public option is such an important and forward step from the status quo. It will spark entreprenurial activity and increase competition (not just in health care but in all industry).

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

Health care is irrelevant.

The United States went from being an entirely rural land to the world's foremost industrial superpower in a century. Healthcare in those days consisted of little more than narcotics, amputation, splints, and maybe cocaine in the latter part of the century. Infant mortality was high, but well fed, active farmers could look forward to living well into the 60s and living into one's 70s was not uncommon.

A casual stroll through much of the country clearly indicates to me that Americans are more unhealthy than ever before. Modern healthcare can, at best, make the claim people live a little bit longer than they did in the past. But do they look like humans? Do they live like humans?

If it was up to me, I would close all hospitals. There is simply little reason to have them.

[grapejelly]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

Health Care is a major barrier to entreprenurial activity in America, as are legal costs (over regulation), government control of markets (under regulation), ect..

And so this is why Obama's universal health care with a public option is such an important and forward step from the status quo. It will spark entreprenurial activity and increase competition (not just in health care but in all industry).

So let me get this straight. Socialized health care is good, but other types of socialism aren't good?

[lsa420]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

The government is already highly involved in health care via managed care, medicare and medicaid. Not surprisingly, the more the government gets its grubby hands on something, the worse the quality becomes and the more costly the service becomes. While I appreciate Obama's attempt to change the status quo and lower costs, the answer is not more government bureaucrats peddling paper work and telling me or anyone else how to live or how to spend our money. Mandatory health care?? This is absurd at best and is not a type of system that should ever be considered in a free society. Health care is a service, just like education or going to the store. Think of the years of schooling, apprenticeship, capital and labor it takes for one to be able to perform service sector functions - surgeons, engineers, university professors, attorneys, architects, etc. If health care is a "right" then where do you draw the line? Are food, shelter, clothing and a well paying job also rights?

[goadam1]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

So let me get this straight. Socialized health care is good, but other types of socialism aren't good?

People who like guns don't like healthcare. People who don't like guns like healthcare.

Not a judgement.

I would think corporations who still want to employ people in the States would be for healthcare. More socializing of costs and privatizing of profits.

[cjppjc]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

It was interesting to hear Dr. Paul mention that people were going to India for surgery. Last week a friend mentioned how relatives of his who are on Medicare, found it was less expensive to fly to India and recuperate in a spa for joint replacement procedures. Now maybe it's not less expensive but it must be close.

[Raz]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

People who like guns don't like healthcare. People who don't like guns like healthcare.

Not a judgement.

:confused::confused::confused: You're an intelligent fellow, goadam1. Would you try to explain these two statements?

I don't like guns, and I especially don't like the killing of animals for sport. Yet I am a strong believer in the Second Amendment, and interpret it as the Founders meant when they discussed it in the Federalist Papers. (It is an individual right, not a group right.)
Yet I don't believe that healthcare is a "right", and certainly not an inalienable right. If it were then it would be, as Mr. Jefferson said, "self-evident". It would be observable throughout the created order. But it is not, for even Redwoods grow old and diseased and die.

Now I'm not without compassion, and I do believe that as a nation we should attempt to help those who have no health insurance coverage by reason of affordability. That covers approxiamately 16,000,000 United States citizens - NOT the 46,000,000 that the Obama Left throws out as a headline, sensationalist number. For that we don't need to wipe out the entire healthcare system as it currently exists. It would seem that the main problem is the Insurance Cartel and I'm hoping for some serious reform toward that end.

[a warren]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

:confused::confused::confused: It would be observable throughout the created order.

Would you mind explaining this statement?

[Raz]

Re: Corporatism vs Capitalism

Would you mind explaining this statement?

I'll be glad to attempt it.

No one can assert a right against the created order. For example, the law of gravity prevents water from flowing uphill. Now man can build a pumping system to force water uphill, but it would be utterly ridiculous to say that "I have a right for water to flow uphill".

Good health is not a right. That is manifest throughout the created order.
And healthcare is not a right - it is a claim that must be enforced against individuals, whose property or income must be confiscated in order to provide this phony "right" to someone else.