Numismatic Liquidation?!

[jaybuk]

Hi all. I don't feel that I can add a whole lot so I mostly just absorb the great commentary here. I received the email below just a few minutes ago and it struck me as ironic. Is the change almost upon us?

Dear , APMEX will no longer be selling certain types of coins, currency, collectibles and supplies! This decision has been made to accommodate the growing requests from our customers for more precious metal and bullion related items. If you are a collector, you can take advantage of this unprecedented CLOSEOUT EVENT as we eliminate forever many of our coins, currency, collectibles and numismatic supplies.

Going forward, we will still be buying and selling all Gold, Silver, Platinum & Palladium Bullion as well as semi-bullion items like Silver Dollars, Pre-1933 Gold, 40% and 90% Silver, and a few other selected items that our customers want. EVERY other numismatic item will be reduced for immediate liquidation. These items will be clearly marked throughout the APMEX website with this special icon:

[fpacific]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

so? what's the change coming? care to elaborate? a new willingness to sell? hmmm. I have a niece in Fla that has standings orders from gold specialists to buy any and all. maybe these dudes just have a bad business plan or a cocaine habit.

[fpacific]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

oh I forgot to mention, she runs a coin shop and is doing quite fantastically. ecstatic.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

I think that this is part of a general and recent trend toward treating gold as money, based more heavily on the gold content, and less on jewelry or collector value.

Eric deCarbonnel makes this point on marketskeptics.com in his post Gold Market Reaching The Breaking Point :

Gold is becoming money once again. The market for the standard gold one-ounce coin is no longer fragmented. Both the ugliest and the most beautiful gold coins are traded strictly by the quantity and quality of metal content, disregarding the outward appearance of the coin. Even Indian gold buyers, who, for years, considered buying jewellery to be the best investment option, are shifting from buying gold jewellery to gold coins.

[Tybee Island]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

I think something else is afoot here. I have been watching the premiums for numismatic coins over the past several months. The peak occurred in the late Summer and has been falling since. The moment gold broke a thousand the premiums fell back severely.

At the end of the day not every numismatic coin is "rare." In fact, the St. Gaudens are being repatriated from Europe where millions of these coins have been stored since FDR 's infamous confiscation.

I elected to trade a large number of numismatic coins for bullion to a dealer that works with gold IRA accounts and received a very good price but one that was below the "retail" value found on PCGS or NGC. These coins were all MS 63 to MS 66 $20 St. Gaudens and Liberty Double Eagles. I was happy with the premium I captured over what I paid for the coins but found that the true market for these coins was 30-40% below quoted retail values.

My thought is that there will be little distinction between numismatic coins and bullion when all hell breaks loose.

I am now selling the last of my numismatic holdings (never greater than about 10% of my entire gold holdings) and will have completely moved into bullion by the weekend.

Those of you that hold the numismatic coins may think twice about holding them in lieu of pure bullion.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

Ahahah. What a cheap assed marketing technique. I clicked on it and couldn't find what they were selling.

They're hawking fractional gold eagles.. isn't that numismatic?

[strittmatter]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

The peak occurred in the late Summer and has been falling since. The moment gold broke a thousand the premiums fell back severely.

My thought is that there will be little distinction between numismatic coins and bullion when all hell breaks loose.

This I noticed also.

Interesting.

[Tybee Island]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

This is a follow-on to the discussion some of us had here earlier in the year with EJ on where the fine art market was going and the huge deflation in values.

EJ had commented that he held some numismatics too and I thought at the time that they would hold up better then they have. For better or worse I made the determination to go to all bullion and essentially "double my quantity over quality."

[jiimbergin]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

Ahahah. What a cheap assed marketing technique. I clicked on it and couldn't find what they were selling.

They're hawking fractional gold eagles.. isn't that numismatic?

You did not wait long enough on APMEX front page. The add at the top rotates through 4 different adds. Two of them are for numismatic coins.

There are a number of numismatic coins on close out. But since I don't normally buy them I have no idea how good the price is. But I do buy most of my bullion from APMEX as do a number of other Itulipers

[jpatter666]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

You did not wait long enough on APMEX front page. The add at the top rotates through 4 different adds. Two of them are for numismatic coins.

There are a number of numismatic coins on close out. But since I don't normally buy them I have no idea how good the price is. But I do buy most of my bullion from APMEX as do a number of other Itulipers

Interesting. For my physical I've been buying coins, because I've always figured coins would be more trusted than bars (I always remembered the argument in Cryptonomicon about how to validate a gold bar -- interesting book, one of the central themes is creating a gold-backed currency!) if things got "interesting". I need to add some silver for "small change" :rolleyes:

The rest of my holdings are split between audited closed-end funds like GTU/CEF and PM companies like Bullionvault. It also helps that everything in these is located outside the US.

[sn1p3r]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

I've heard more than one person and even read in a few books that some suggest holding numismatic until it starts to look bad and then you should convert those to bullion (if you can). I don't follow this philosophy but in learning about gold I've heard this approach more than once. Not sure if it applies to a PM vendor but the theory makes sense and may explain their move.

[Tybee Island]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

I know Bullionvault is endorsed here, but I subscribe to the motto: "If you can't hold it, you don't own it"

I have grown far too skeptical in these times to believe "any promise made by any third party."

[Tybee Island]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

It is "looking bad."

[jiimbergin]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

Interesting. For my physical I've been buying coins, because I've always figured coins would be more trusted than bars (I always remembered the argument in Cryptonomicon about how to validate a gold bar -- interesting book, one of the central themes is creating a gold-backed currency!) if things got "interesting". I need to add some silver for "small change" :rolleyes:

The rest of my holdings are split between audited closed-end funds like GTU/CEF and PM companies like Bullionvault. It also helps that everything in these is located outside the US.

We are very much alike. Most of my physical PM is in coins, but maybe 15% is in bars. About 5% is in Bullionvault. I too have a good portion in CEF/GTU. I have junk silver left from the late 70s and have bought more recently.

[jpatter666]

Re: Numismatic Liquidation?!

I know Bullionvault is endorsed here, but I subscribe to the motto: "If you can't hold it, you don't own it"

I have grown far too skeptical in these times to believe "any promise made by any third party."

Can't argue that if you're able to pull it off. For me, I basically thought of two scenarios:

1 ) Things get bad, but not so bad that a basic commerce framework ceases to exist. In such a case, one would hope BullionVault and GTU/CEF are not ponzi or paper schemes (sigh) and do not have their respective assets confiscated by the government and exchanged for paper.
2 ) Things get very bad in which case I do not have enough gold/silver to hire a personal security force [and I don't have jtabeb's emergency number to call in an airstrike ;)] to hold off gangs that would likely ransack anyone they knew had significant (or any) holdings.

And there is always the risk of robbery. So, as I'm sure you are very well aware, there is always risk. It's just which ones you prefer I suppose.