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  • #16
    Re: Iran to stop pricing oil in U.S. dollar

    Tet, check this out:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintAr...articleId=5045
    London's Cayman Islands: The Empire of the Hedge Funds


    By Richard Freeman

    Global Research, March 11, 2007
    EIR


    On Feb. 27, the world's hedge funds, through their manipulation and miscalculation of the yen carry-trade, led to a violent unwinding of that carry-trade, which triggered disintegration of the world financial structure. Stock exchanges fell, from the Dow Jones exchange in the United States, to China's Shanghai composite index, to Brazil's Bovespa index, shedding more than $1.5 trillion in paper losses. Secondary incidents contributed to setting off the downturn. But hedge funds had already bled the major international commercial banks and corporations into absolute bankruptcy, and had leveraged borrowed funds and derivatives into the biggest financial tumor ever. That, combined with their yen carry-trade role, amplified the effect of the secondary incidents, and is now driving the financial system further into systemic breakdown.

    And where are those hedge funds? Though they may have offices in locations like Greenwich, Connecticut, or New York City, 8,282 out of the total of 9,800 hedge funds operating at the end of the third quarter 2006 worldwide, were registered in the Cayman Islands, a British Overseas Territory, run like a dictatorship by a Royal Governor appointed by Queen Elizabeth II, with a total population of 57,000 people.

    There is good reason for this. The Cayman Islands Monetary Authority (CIMA) is supposed to "regulate" the hedge funds, but instead runs a protection racket for their derivatives trading and tax sheltering. The CIMA gives each hedge fund, at registration, a 100-year exemption from any taxes; shelters the fund's activity behind a wall of official secrecy; allows the fund to self-regulate; and prevents other nations from regulating the funds by insisting on first and final authority in this area.

    And the remainder of the world's hedge funds, not registered in the Cayman Islands? Most are registered in other British Overseas Territories and satrapies, such as the Bahamas, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, and the Isle of Man.

    Global Financial Oligarchy's Instrument

    Since mid-January, forces internationally—ranging from the Danish government, to German Vice Chancellor Franz Müntefering (who has famously labeled hedge funds "locusts"), to U.S. Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.)—have directed initiatives geared to regulating, and potentially bringing under control the predatory activities of the world's hedge funds. For his efforts, Müntefering was outrageously attacked on Feb. 14 by the German edition of the Financial Times, the London financier oligarchy's mouthpiece, as an "anti-Semite."

    The Müntefering, Levin, and other initiatives, though reflecting a well-intentioned impulse, don't recognize the real nature of the beast; accordingly, they will not solve the problem. For the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy, closely intertwined banks and hedge funds are its foremost instruments of power, to control the financial system, and loot and devastate companies and nations. Recognizing that this financial system is fracturing, the oligarchy will go to general nuclear war against Iran, Russia, and China, rather than lose its instruments of power. Therefore, it is impossible to think of hedge-fund reform in the United States, or in Germany, because the real source of power of hedge funds in these countries, lies outside in the Cayman Islands, ensconced in a fortified shell. Leaders such as Müntefering or Levin, must be prepared to break the power of the Cayman Islands—which means the death grip of the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy, if they are to achieve anything of value at all.

    This oligarchy made changes in the Cayman Islands so that the hedge-fund "slime-mold" would find hospitable grounds for growth. The hedge funds' growth in the Caymans, in turn, fueled their growth internationally.

    The three island specks in the Caribbean Sea, 480 miles south from Florida's southern tip—which came to be known as the Caymans, after the native word for crocodile (caymana)—had for centuries been a basing area for pirates who attacked trading vessels.

    Though under British rule for centuries, the Caymans officially became a British Crown Colony in 1971, though later the term was changed to the euphemistic moniker British Overseas Territory; then as now, Queen Elizabeth II rules firmly, appointing the Islands' Governor, etc.

    In 1993, the decision was made to turn this tourist trap into a major financial power, through the adoption of a Mutual Funds Law, to enable the easy incorporation and/or registration of hedge funds in a deregulated system. (Technically, a hedge fund is a type of mutual fund, but not your grandfather's type.*) According to a firm that incorporates hedge funds, "The Mutual Fund Law was established ... to position the Cayman Islands as a hub in the financial industry."

    According to representatives of Charles Adams, Ritchie & Duckworth, a Cayman Islands law firm that is involved in the hedge-fund business, the Cayman Islands offer prospective hedge funds:

    * "No regulatory restriction on investment policies or strategies, commercial terms ... , or choice of service providers....

    * "Tax-neutral environment with no direct corporation, capital gains, income, profits or withholding taxes applicable to funds" (emphasis added).

    The ease of setting up a hedge fund was brought home in a telephone discussion with a member of the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority, which is charged with "regulating" them. From the day of application, it takes but two to five days for a hedge fund to be approved, and costs $3,600 in total fees, a mere drop in the bucket. To invest in a hedge fund, an investor must put up at least $100,000. From then onward, the hedge fund must produce an annual account, audited by a Caymans local accountant. If one recalls how Arthur Andersen LLP and other accountants carried out audits in recent years, it is apparent that this does not have to be a high hurdle.

    The only information that the CIMA will release about a hedge fund, is that it is registered, and where its registered office is. The names of investors and other minimal information are kept strictly secret. Since the Cayman Islands have no tax laws, the CIMA shares little or no information with other nations' authorities on tax matters. On other matters, it is up to the CIMA whether it will "share or divulge information."

    On the whole, neither the United States' Securities and Exchange Commission, nor other countries' regulatory bodies, have any regulatory authority over hedge funds. Moreover, neither the SEC, nor other bodies, have pierced the CIMA's armor.

    The 1993 Mutual Fund Law had its effect: with direction from the City of London, the number of hedge funds operating in the Cayman Islands exploded: from 1,685 hedge funds in 1997, to 8,282 at the end of the third quarter 2006, a fivefold increase. Cayman Island hedge funds are four-fifths of the world total. Globally, hedge funds hold $1.44 trillion in assets under management, but through using leverage of anywhere from 5 to 20 times, they command up to $30 trillion of deployable funds.

    But the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy built an entire financial superstructure on the Cayman Islands. Aside from the Caymans' huge holdings of hedge-fund assets, the Islands' banking system possesses assets of $1.41 trillion (though this includes some overlap with the hedge fund assets). The offshore, unregulated Cayman Islands has the fourth-largest banking system in the world—after those of the United Stats, Japan, and Britain. Compare: The United States has 300 million people, the Cayman Islands has 57,000.

    The Cayman Islands also is the world's number-two jurisdiction for captive insurance companies (a type of limited-purpose, and increasingly speculative insurance company). Cayman licensees hold $29.6 trillion in assets.

    The Queen's Men

    To have the Caymans function as an epicenter for globalization and financial warfare, the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy hand-selected the top Cayman officials.

    * Since late 2005, the Governor of the Islands, approved by the office of the Queen, is Stuart Duncan Jack, a career officer of the British Foreign Office. For his service, Jack was knighted Commander of the Royal Victorian Order, a chivalric order founded by Queen Victoria, which ranks above that of the Order of the British Empire.

    * Timothy Ridley, the chairman of the vital Cayman Islands Monetary Authority, is a lawyer who was knighted as a member of the Order of the British Empire for his role in building up the hedge funds and their infrastructure during the 1990s.

    Two Americans on the board of the CIMA, further indicate the nasty character of that institution.

    * Warren Coats, who served for 26 years with the International Monetary Fund, was called in by the United States to be an advisor to Iraq and Afghanistan on "rebuilding money and banking systems"—which has resulted in disaster.

    * Richard Rahn, a member of the Mont Pelerin Society, the oligarchy's coordinating center for deregulation and elimination of the nation-state, is also the head of the Center for Economic Growth. This Center is an offshoot of the rightist FreedomWorks Foundation, run by C. Boyden Gray, heir of the Reynolds Tobacco fortune; and by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-Tex). Rahn's buddy and intelligence operative Gray helped arrange the European Union Savings Directive, which permitted the Cayman Islands government to exempt the hedge funds there from reporting to European countries their "cross-border income."

    In addition to the Caymans, the offshore British Virgin Islands has over 2,000 hedge funds registered, and Bermuda has over 500. (Note that the total number of hedge funds officially registered in British outposts, combined, exceeds the world total, in this unregulated sector.)

    The Real Enemy

    With the power accumulated from these unregulated offshore British outposts led by the Cayman Islands, the Anglo-Dutch financial oligarchy has assembled an incredible strike force, above and against the interest of nation-states.

    * Hedge funds are the dominant force in the Japanese yen and to an extent, the Swiss franc carry-trade. The carry-trade has provided an enormous source of liquidity for some of the most risky derivatives and leveraged financial games in the world. The unwinding of this trade, represented by the 3.6% appreciation of the yen from Feb. 26 to March 2, by itself can bring down the world financial system.

    * According to reports, during 2005, the hedge funds were responsible for up to 50% of the transactions on the London and New York stock exchanges.

    * Senators Carl Levin and Norm Coleman (R-Minn.)—chairman and ranking member of the Senate Permanent Investigations Subcommittee of the Homeland Security Committee—have shown that the hedge funds are a center for circulating hundreds of billions of dollars in hot-money flows and tax shelters. They document a case of the brothers Sam and Charles Wyly of Texas, who used two Cayman Island hedge funds to store and shelter $300 million from taxes in the United States.

    * The hedge funds are among the biggest speculators in some of the most precarious derivatives instruments, like credit derivatives, and collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which are adding instability to the shaking world financial system.

    * The hedge funds are leading a frenzied wave of mergers and acquisitions, which reached nearly $4 trillion last year, and they are buying up and stripping down companies from auto parts producer Delphi and Texas power utility TXU, to Office Equities Properties, to hundreds of thousands of apartments in Berlin and Dresden, Germany. This has led to hundreds of thousands of workers being laid off.

    They are assisted by their Wall Street allies. Taken altogether, the hedge funds, with money borrowed from the world's biggest commercial and investment banks, have pushed the world's derivatives bubble well past $600 trillion in nominal value, and put the world on the path of the biggest financial disintegration in modern history.

    At the same time, in this Anglo-Dutch mix are the big banks, like the British Crown's Dope, Inc. bank, the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank, Europe's biggest; and the Dutch ABN-Amro, which owns the old-line British Empire investment bank Barings. With this integrated force, using the Cayman Islands as a basing operation, the Anglo-Dutch Liberals have leverage over the world financial system.

    The hedge funds' wild forays cannot be controlled by neat resolutions on open reporting. The hedge-fund issue involves the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy, which believes it is in an end-game war, and will do anything to preserve its power. This is the level of the fight by any force serious about tackling the hedge-fund question.

    EIR's "Glossary of the Global Financial Casino," published May 27, 2005, defines a hedge fund as "a form of mutual fund used by wealthy individuals and institutions to engage in aggressive speculative activities prohibited to ordinary mutual funds. Hedge funds are restricted by law to no more than 100 investors per fund, and these investors are presumed to be sufficiently knowledgeable to understand the risks. Most hedge funds have extremely high minimum investment amounts ranging from $250,000 to well over $1 million.

    Comment


    • #17
      The Global Oil Grab Of 2007

      THE GLOBAL OIL GRAB OF 2007
      http://www.isecureonline.com/Reports...55879&l=819684


      Disaster in the Desert: The Coming U.S.-Iran War

      Please look at this map of Iran and its neighbors. To Iran's west are nearly 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. To its east are about 20,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. And to its south, two U.S. naval strike groups are deployed in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea - the USS Enterprise and the USS Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group.
      Excellent article and analysis of the present world power grab.

      Comment


      • #18
        Non-Issue

        Originally posted by Sapiens
        It's largely irrelevant what currency Iran prices its oil in. If it takes dollars and converts them into euros or yen, it's about the same as if it took euros or yen in the first place.
        Finster
        ...

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Non-Issue

          Originally posted by Finster
          It's largely irrelevant what currency Iran prices its oil in. If it takes dollars and converts them into euros or yen, it's about the same as if it took euros or yen in the first place.
          No Finster, it is not irrelevant. You know quite well that having oil priced in bonars is what gives the US currency it reserve status.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Non-Issue

            Originally posted by Sapiens
            No Finster, it is not irrelevant. You know quite well that having oil priced in bonars is what gives the US currency it reserve status.
            I don't know that at all. This is the stuff of tin-foil-hatters. Reserve status is nothing official, and also has nothing to do with oil per se. We've heard this story many times, but have yet to hear anyone explain why it makes any difference whether Iran sells its oil for dollars and then trades the dollars for another currency, or just sells its oil for another currency to begin with. The buyers wind up with the same oil either way and Iran winds up with the same currency reserves either way. If you are going to make a case that it does make a difference, please at least develop some factual and logical argument to the contrary.
            Finster
            ...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Non-Issue

              Originally posted by Finster
              I don't know that at all. This is the stuff of tin-foil-hatters. Reserve status is nothing official, and also has nothing to do with oil per se. We've heard this story many times, but have yet to hear anyone explain why it makes any difference whether Iran sells its oil for dollars and then trades the dollars for another currency, or just sells its oil for another currency to begin with. The buyers wind up with the same oil either way and Iran winds up with the same currency reserves either way. If you are going to make a case that it does make a difference, please at least develop some factual and logical argument to the contrary.
              Finster,

              I wish I had the disposable time to address this point with you at length and engage you on some intellectual and academic banter, but I don’t.

              Suffice to say that if you have taken a trip anywhere in the Third World, you may observe that energy is priced in bonars.

              -Sapiens

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Non-Issue

                Originally posted by Finster
                I don't know that at all. This is the stuff of tin-foil-hatters. Reserve status is nothing official, and also has nothing to do with oil per se. We've heard this story many times, but have yet to hear anyone explain why it makes any difference whether Iran sells its oil for dollars and then trades the dollars for another currency, or just sells its oil for another currency to begin with. The buyers wind up with the same oil either way and Iran winds up with the same currency reserves either way. If you are going to make a case that it does make a difference, please at least develop some factual and logical argument to the contrary.
                First, not much that Iran's 3 million barrels per day is going to do one way or the other. Iran's oil is still sold on the exchanges of London and Wall Street so in effect, Iran prices their oil in d0llars anyway no matter which currency they end up taking. More importantly London and Wall Street still get their cut of the Petrol D0llar recycling still taking place.

                The problem occurs when a country such as Iraq starts selling their oil in Euro's contract by contract and by-passes the Wall Street/London oil bourses. When you bypass the exchanges you get invaded, it's pretty simple and the first thing the US did when they invaded Iraq was change their oil sells back to d0llars.

                I realize this is all just tinfoil hat stuff for you and fundamentals, economic theories and astrology are how the real money gets made in the market even though the fundamentals don't pan out, the economic theories are bullshit and astrology probably gets you a better return of the three. For me I try to realize that if you point a gun at a guy's head he'll do what you tell him to. Helps to explain why nobody comes even close to having as many guns as we do.

                Petrol D0llar recycling is a huge mover for the markets, much more so than inverted yield curves and trade deficits. I'd recommend F. William Engdahl
                and his tin foil hat views on the subject.

                http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.ne...ar_system.html
                The Dollar System and US economic reality post-Iraq War

                http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.ne...il_bourse.html
                Why Iran's oil bourse can't break the buck

                http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html
                Home page

                As Henry Kissinger once noted, "Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world."

                Looks to me like the US is pretty keen on controlling the world, we'll see how that turns out. I think it's been tried several times in the past.
                Last edited by Tet; April 18, 2007, 10:37 AM.
                "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
                - Charles Mackay

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Non-Issue

                  Originally posted by Sapiens
                  Finster,

                  I wish I had the disposable time to address this point with you at length and engage you on some intellectual and academic banter, but I don’t.

                  Suffice to say that if you have taken a trip anywhere in the Third World, you may observe that energy is priced in bonars.

                  -Sapiens
                  Originally posted by Tet
                  First, not much that Iran's 3 million barrels per day is going to do one way or the other. Iran's oil is still sold on the exchanges of London and Wall Street so in effect, Iran prices their oil in d0llars anyway no matter which currency they end up taking. More importantly London and Wall Street still get their cut of the Petrol D0llar recycling still taking place.

                  The problem occurs when a country such as Iraq starts selling their oil in Euro's contract by contract and by-passes the Wall Street/London oil bourses. When you bypass the exchanges you get invaded, it's pretty simple and the first thing the US did when they invaded Iraq was change their oil sells back to d0llars.

                  I realize this is all just tinfoil hat stuff for you and fundamentals, economic theories and astrology are how the real money gets made in the market even though the fundamentals don't pan out, the economic theories are bullshit and astrology probably gets you a better return of the three. For me I try to realize that if you point a gun at a guy's head he'll do what you tell him to. Helps to explain why nobody comes even close to having as many guns as we do.

                  Petrol D0llar recycling is a huge mover for the markets, much more so than inverted yield curves and trade deficits. I'd recommend F. William Engdahl
                  and his tin foil hat views on the subject.

                  http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.ne...ar_system.html
                  The Dollar System and US economic reality post-Iraq War

                  http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.ne...il_bourse.html
                  Why Iran's oil bourse can't break the buck

                  http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html
                  Home page

                  As Henry Kissinger once noted, "Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world."

                  Looks to me like the US is pretty keen on controlling the world, we'll see how that turns out. I think it's been tried several times in the past.
                  Now that we've had a full complement of conspiratorial rhetoric, generalities, innuendo and suspicion, does anyone have any evidence?

                  Heck, even a half-hearted attempt to address the argument I made would make a more a positive contribution to debate and understanding.

                  Taking the tack you have chosen will convince just about everyone who already believes the US government engineered the fall of the Twin Towers, that the whole flap about Iranian nukes is just a pretext for Western invasion, and that space aliens are channelling Elvis.

                  Those of us who have a weakness for facts and logic will just have to wait.
                  Finster
                  ...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Non-Issue

                    Originally posted by Finster
                    Those of us who have a weakness for facts and logic will just have to wait.
                    Finster,

                    You are barking up the wrong tree since I will not waste my time in moot rhetoric. However, there are plenty of easily accessible facts at your finger tips, if you so choose to look them up.

                    I do find your comments bizarre since you also have posted that you believe in watching what people do and not what they say…

                    http://www.itulip.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=1

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Non-Issue

                      Originally posted by Sapiens
                      You are barking up the wrong tree since I will not waste my time in moot rhetoric. However, there are plenty of easily accessible facts at your finger tips, if you so choose to look them up.
                      If these "facts" are so obvious and "easily accessible", then you have already wasted your time posting "moot rhetoric" here. It would be mere surplus repetition of the already-well-known ... unless you are willing to expose it to challenge.
                      Finster
                      ...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Non-Issue

                        Originally posted by Finster
                        If these "facts" are so obvious and "easily accessible", then you have already wasted your time posting "moot rhetoric" here. It would be mere surplus repetition of the already-well-known ... unless you are willing to expose it to challenge.
                        My theory is this, what we've got is my money, your money, other peoples money and their money. I define their money as Wall Street itself. My conspiracy theory is simply this, I take your money, other people's money and their money. This is my goal, I certainly don't try to hide that goal unless doing so allowed me to take more of your money, other people's money and their money. Now here's where the real conspiracy kicks in, in order to keep this brief we'll just say that other people's money always gets taken, by either you, me, their money or some combination of the three. We all realize that other people aren't the market experts that you are and they aren't whacked out conspiracy theorists like me. Now I believe that you, other people and them are all out to get my money, now why shouldn't I believe this? I'm certainly trying to get everyone elses.

                        In 2006 what was one of the best bets you could have placed? Believe it or not GM had a 85.8% return for the year 2006 and was the single biggest mover on the DOW. Leading into 2006 a lot of other people and maybe even you thought GM was headed out of business or some foolish notion like that. How does this happen? From going out of business to being the biggest mover on the DOW all in less than 12 months. Now the conspiracy theorist that I am recognized that their money was paying for editorials that were trashing GM. All this stopped after Kirkorian rolled his initial $36 buy in (Their Money) and converted it to $19 (Their Money) in December of 2005 and put his boy on the board when he finally bought 10% of the stock. The mainstream editorials all started to become good news and the rest is history. I'm not sure how chartists, market experts like yourself, fundamentalists, astrologists and all the other people all missed this move, but a simple conspiracy theorsist like myself took alot of other peoples money, maybe even your money and hopefully their money thanks to GM.

                        Now how does this tie into oil? Well to be an industrial society you certainly need oil, so if you controlled the sale of oil you stand a very good chance of taking more of my money, or your money, or other people's money than you would if the sale of oil didn't almost entirely flow through Wall Street using Their Money. How much of that 85.8% return GM posted come from the recycling of Petrol D0llars into the hottest selling stock on the DOW last year? Quite a bit I can assure you, that's why I try to keep an eye on it, so I can continue to take more of your money, other people's money and hopefully their money. It's a simple game to me, but I guess it's a conspiracy to many.

                        That's my theory, you can look up TURD's if you'd like because that's what you need to purchase first in order to purchase oil and you can only purchase a TURD with a d0llar and only from two exchanges either London or Wall Street. Now what Wall Street does with these TURD's and the money they get for them until the buyer takes delivery of the crude is either short a stock or buy a stock long, or at least that's what my conspiracy leads me to believe. Recognizing what they're doing is a lot easier when you know what to look for. JP Morgans returns were up 55% for the first quarter alone, not bad and a lot easier to do with crude selling at $63.
                        "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
                        - Charles Mackay

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Non-Issue

                          Originally posted by Tet
                          My theory is this, what we've got is my money, your money, other peoples money and their money. I define their money as Wall Street itself. My conspiracy theory is simply this, I take your money, other people's money and their money. This is my goal, I certainly don't try to hide that goal unless doing so allowed me to take more of your money, other people's money and their money. Now here's where the real conspiracy kicks in, in order to keep this brief we'll just say that other people's money always gets taken, by either you, me, their money or some combination of the three. We all realize that other people aren't the market experts that you are and they aren't whacked out conspiracy theorists like me. Now I believe that you, other people and them are all out to get my money, now why shouldn't I believe this? I'm certainly trying to get everyone elses.

                          In 2006 what was one of the best bets you could have placed? Believe it or not GM had a 85.8% return for the year 2006 and was the single biggest mover on the DOW. Leading into 2006 a lot of other people and maybe even you thought GM was headed out of business or some foolish notion like that. How does this happen? From going out of business to being the biggest mover on the DOW all in less than 12 months. Now the conspiracy theorist that I am recognized that their money was paying for editorials that were trashing GM. All this stopped after Kirkorian rolled his initial $36 buy in (Their Money) and converted it to $19 (Their Money) in December of 2005 and put his boy on the board when he finally bought 10% of the stock. The mainstream editorials all started to become good news and the rest is history. I'm not sure how chartists, market experts like yourself, fundamentalists, astrologists and all the other people all missed this move, but a simple conspiracy theorsist like myself took alot of other peoples money, maybe even your money and hopefully their money thanks to GM.

                          Now how does this tie into oil? Well to be an industrial society you certainly need oil, so if you controlled the sale of oil you stand a very good chance of taking more of my money, or your money, or other people's money than you would if the sale of oil didn't almost entirely flow through Wall Street using Their Money. How much of that 85.8% return GM posted come from the recycling of Petrol D0llars into the hottest selling stock on the DOW last year? Quite a bit I can assure you, that's why I try to keep an eye on it, so I can continue to take more of your money, other people's money and hopefully their money. It's a simple game to me, but I guess it's a conspiracy to many.

                          That's my theory, you can look up TURD's if you'd like because that's what you need to purchase first in order to purchase oil and you can only purchase a TURD with a d0llar and only from two exchanges either London or Wall Street. Now what Wall Street does with these TURD's and the money they get for them until the buyer takes delivery of the crude is either short a stock or buy a stock long, or at least that's what my conspiracy leads me to believe. Recognizing what they're doing is a lot easier when you know what to look for. JP Morgans returns were up 55% for the first quarter alone, not bad and a lot easier to do with crude selling at $63.
                          Not necessarily taking issue with any of your points here, Tet. The thing stuck in my craw is the original point I made, which stands utterly unaddressed, let alone rebutted. And that is that it makes no difference whether Iran gets dollars and trades them for another currency or gets the other currency to begin with.

                          If it wants, say, euros, the effect is the same either way. If it sells its oil for euros instead of dollars, the dollar goes down. If it sells its oil for dollars, then dumps all the dollars into the forex market in exchange for euros, the dollar goes down.

                          It bears keeping in mind that the forex markets are massive and extremely liquid. A dollar in any one place is fungible with respect to a dollar anywhere else. Therefore the demand for dollars - or any other currency - by virtually any party is felt almost exactly the same regardless of what form it initially takes. If China were to decide it had one too many trillion dollars in its accounts, dumping them onto the global market would have the same effect on the value of the dollar regardless of what else it traded them for. Trading them for euros and then selling the euros to buy yen with would have the same net effect on the euro as if it just traded them for yen. Either way, you had a trillion dollars extra supply of dollars and an equivalent extra demand for yen.

                          So none of this is to say Iran isn't holding some meaningful cards. It has oil. The US wants oil. If, by whatever route, Iran ships out oil and doesn't accumulate dollars in exchange, dollars are going to fall at least against oil, and probably other things, too.

                          Iran could at best make a symbolic statement if it refused to sell oil for dollars, but the market effect would be the same as if it simply refused to retain any dollars so obtained. And even the symbolic merit of such a statement would be dubious at best, since no one living outside a cave doesn't already know the low esteem in which Iran holds the United States.
                          Finster
                          ...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Iran to stop pricing oil in U.S. dollar

                            from what i've read, the fact that oil is sold in dollars forces oil purchasers to maintain some dollar balances that would otherwise not be required. i don't recall the estimated totals, but i do recall that i was not impressed by their size. still, it does add some marginal demand for the dollar.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Non-Issue

                              Originally posted by Finster
                              Not necessarily taking issue with any of your points here, Tet. The thing stuck in my craw is the original point I made, which stands utterly unaddressed, let alone rebutted. And that is that it makes no difference whether Iran gets dollars and trades them for another currency or gets the other currency to begin with.
                              I thought my response to this agreed with you that Iran's 3 million barrels per day doesn't have much impact if any, as long as the oil is still sold through Wall Street or London, which it is. It's priced in d0llars now. If Iran sells this oil contract by contract, in multiple currencies or barter that's a big problem. About $190 million in d0llar demand per day gone, just from the crude, not counting the d0llar demand that disappears from other commodities, plus more importantly Wall Street doesn't get their 10% cut, plus the money they make on the float from shipment to delivery. You take Wall Streets 10% cut out of the equation and Iran could discount the price and still make more and Wall Street isn't going to allow that to happen. Every March and April the press or internet brings out these Iran sells oil in Euros or Iran starts their own oil bourse stories. This has been going on for the last three or four years now.


                              Iran could at best make a symbolic statement if it refused to sell oil for dollars, but the market effect would be the same as if it simply refused to retain any dollars so obtained. And even the symbolic merit of such a statement would be dubious at best, since no one living outside a cave doesn't already know the low esteem in which Iran holds the United States.
                              Iran plain and simple doesn't want to risk having the d0llar holdings frozen by the US again, I would be willing to bet Iran is holding Euro/D0llars meaning d0llars in european banks not Euros at all. Before the Shah, British Petroleum controlled Iran, when the Shah came he brought along Exxon, after the Shah left BP came back into Iran. This is a matter of who makes the money, Wall Street or London. Iran playing the bad guy certainly makes everyone including Iran richer.
                              "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
                              - Charles Mackay

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                              • #30
                                Re: Iran to stop pricing oil in U.S. dollar

                                Originally posted by jk
                                from what i've read, the fact that oil is sold in dollars forces oil purchasers to maintain some dollar balances that would otherwise not be required. i don't recall the estimated totals, but i do recall that i was not impressed by their size. still, it does add some marginal demand for the dollar.
                                Oh come on, you've got to be kidding. Why would you as a foreign country even hold d0llars if it wasn't for oil? What possibly are you going to buy from the US that you couldn't buy better quality at a lower price from someplace else in the world? Shitty cars? Shitty military gear? Shitty Operating Systems? Boeing jets, some electronics, stocks, bonds and real estate is about all you can do with Uncle Buck.

                                Without oil sold almost exclusively in d0llars, why else would you hold them? 85 million barrels per day every day, each and everyday, 365 days a year 366 days on Leap Years, do the math, I'm coming up with almost $2 trillion of oil sold per year at todays prices, much of this oil all sold in d0llars, plus all the other commodities that are now controlled by this because basically countries are trading their copper, iron, steel, nickel etc for d0llars to purchase oil. The only reason to hold d0llars is oil you don't have an industrial society without it.
                                "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
                                - Charles Mackay

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