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  • California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

    California Enters Inflationary Depression
    October 28, 2009

    I was surprised to see the following headline in today’s Wall Street Journal: Oil Price Rise Poses Little Threat, Yet, To Economic Recovery. The piece was stitched together with many quotes from economists, saying that oil’s advance to 80.00 was not yet a problem–though it could present a problem if we went any higher. I suppose that in a multi-year data set, and looking at the world in a rather static way, this might be true. But I thought economists at least shared the view that weak economies were more vulnerable to shocks? 80 dollar oil in the Autumn of ‘07 was a very different overlay, than 80 dollar oil right now. And besides, I’m also not sure about the Journal’s use of the phrase economic recovery. From today’s article:

    Estimates vary as to when oil prices become a major drag on the economy, but several economists said crude at $90 to $100 a barrel and gasoline above $3 a gallon was the edge of the danger zone. December crude futures were recently up $1.05, or 1.3%, at $79.75 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Prices at the pump for U.S gasoline have risen over 6% in the past month to average $2.671 a gallon, according to data from the American Automobile Association. “Eighty dollars a barrel is not a showstopper,” said Brian Bethune, U.S. economist with IHS Global Insights in Washington. “We need to be at $90 to $100 a barrel before things get more serious. The problem is underlying consumption spending is not strong.”

    Since my last update on California in mid October, BLS has produced fresh, state by state data on the broader (U-6) measure of unemployment. At the end of Q2, California was recording around 12.0% unemployment in the conservative measure, but had risen to 17.7% unemployment in the broader U-6 measure. BLS has just produced Q3 data, and California has now risen again, this time to 19.6% in the U-6 measure. Meanwhile, although gasoline fell today on higher inventories, the lagged effect has been very much in play the past 8 weeks, and California petrol prices have made their way back now, and are very close to 3.00 dollars a gallon.

    You might have seen the headline today that the Bay Bridge in San Francisco had to be closed, on account of falling debris and structural concerns. A vast collection of mid-century infrastructure needs to be upgraded there and most of it is automobile related. Given that the state is broke, that office vacancies in Silicon Valley are approaching 20%, and that Central Valley unemployment is easily at depression levels, I don’t think Californians see “economic recovery.” While 5.00 dollar petrol certainly was crushing in 2008, it seems a lay up that 3.00 dollar gasoline is still quite rough under current conditions, in a state over-leveraged to the automobile. True, the United States is not California and here on the East Coast we have more choices in public transport.

    One question I’ve started to ask people is whether they use the word depression, when referring to the country’s situation. And if not, why not. Alot of the recent data suggests that no sustainable recovery in housing is imminent and, that structurally, unemployment has some permanent qualities to it now, in the sense that many industries in the US are simply not going to return to credit bubble levels. Housing, Automobiles, and Finance just to name the big three. But while housing and wages are deflating, food and energy prices are about to go positive again on an annual basis.

    My view is that oil in the previous era, before the peak of Non-OPEC supply, would be trading around 15-20 dollars a barrel right now in the midst of this depression. But oil can’t trade there. And it won’t trade there. The reason is partly the situation with the US Dollar but mainly that 60% of global supply–Non-OPEC supply–cannot really produce oil anymore with prices in the teens. Non-OPEC oil, which is mostly free-market, Western oil, needs prices nearer to 50 just to maintain production, at minimum. The implications of this are not pleasant, for the United States. And in particular California, with its 32 million vehicles. Worse, the California state labor department is now reporting even uglier unemployment numbers than BLS, with the broad measure now rising to 21.9%. 80 dollar oil and nearly 22% unemployment? Feel free to use my own phrase: inflationary depression. -Gregor

    http://gregor.us/california/californ...ry-depression/
    Last edited by jk; October 29, 2009, 02:55 PM.

  • #2
    Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor



    http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

      One question I’ve started to ask people is whether they use the word depression, when referring to the country’s situation. And if not, why not. Alot of the recent data suggests that no sustainable recovery in housing is imminent and, that structurally, unemployment has some permanent qualities to it now, in the sense that many industries in the US are simply not going to return to credit bubble levels. Housing, Automobiles, and Finance just to name the big three. But while housing and wages are deflating, food and energy prices are about to go positive again on an annual basis.
      I wonder if he's talking about the general public here?

      Not hard to understand why some are confused by this "jobless recovery."

      The mainstream media is blasting confusing messages all the time and even some of the smarter and somewhat skeptical people still have a modicum of faith that they're not being completely lied to by elected officials and media talking heads.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

        Originally posted by babbittd View Post
        I wonder if he's talking about the general public here?

        Not hard to understand why some are confused by this "jobless recovery."

        The mainstream media is blasting confusing messages all the time and even some of the smarter and somewhat skeptical people still have a modicum of faith that they're not being completely lied to by elected officials and media talking heads.
        To be fair to Obama, even though his green shoots are complete BS I can understand that it might be politically difficult for him to go on the radio or TV and say something along the lines of "There's no real recovery people. Oh man, we're so f*ck*d!" Bloggers do have somewhat fewer constraints in this regard.

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        • #5
          Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

          The misery index using Crude Oil prices as the true inflation measure and U6 as the unemployment figure, must be quite appalling in CA...

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          • #6
            Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

            When dealing with "the stupid" or "deniers" one must tread lightly with the truth else cause a stampede.

            Obama has clearly been positioning politically for "the collapse". Biden has already used the term depression and everybody was shocked like it was a Biden slip of the tongue. It wasn't. The "stimulus" is about the future rhetoric of failure and the placement of the "we tried" narrative in the public subconscious.

            I actually think that Obama will do an about face on Afghanistan as soon as the health care bill is passed simply because we cannot afford the war anymore.

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            • #7
              Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

              Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
              When dealing with "the stupid" or "deniers" one must tread lightly with the truth else cause a stampede.

              Obama has clearly been positioning politically for "the collapse". Biden has already used the term depression and everybody was shocked like it was a Biden slip of the tongue. It wasn't. The "stimulus" is about the future rhetoric of failure and the placement of the "we tried" narrative in the public subconscious.

              I actually think that Obama will do an about face on Afghanistan as soon as the health care bill is passed simply because we cannot afford the war anymore.
              You mean: can't not afford the war. How long would the Saudis in power now last if we pull out of Iraq? Would you like an unfriendly regime that doesn't recycle petro dollars into treasury bonds? How long before we are in Pakistan in some form, never mind Afghanistan? If we pull out of Iraq, the Shia take over with their allies in Iran. How about a nuclear armed Taliban for your reelection campaign?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                When dealing with "the stupid" or "deniers" one must tread lightly with the truth else cause a stampede.

                Obama has clearly been positioning politically for "the collapse". Biden has already used the term depression and everybody was shocked like it was a Biden slip of the tongue. It wasn't. The "stimulus" is about the future rhetoric of failure and the placement of the "we tried" narrative in the public subconscious.

                I actually think that Obama will do an about face on Afghanistan as soon as the health care bill is passed simply because we cannot afford the war anymore.

                Originally posted by goadam1 View Post
                You mean: can't not afford the war. How long would the Saudis in power now last if we pull out of Iraq? Would you like an unfriendly regime that doesn't recycle petro dollars into treasury bonds? How long before we are in Pakistan in some form, never mind Afghanistan? If we pull out of Iraq, the Shia take over with their allies in Iran. How about a nuclear armed Taliban for your reelection campaign?
                With or without US troops, Iraq poses no threat to Saudi Arabia. The entire Eastern Province of the Saudi peninsula, which contains most of the oil fields, is majority Shia.

                As for Pakistan...yes the USA will be in Pakistan, but not with its own troops as it is in Afghanistan. The veto of a "surge" in Afghanistan is undoubtedly going to be coincident with a material increase in funding for the Pakistan Army to fight a proxy war on behalf of the USA that it no longer has the stomach to fight for itself. Listen carefully to what Mrs. Clinton has been saying this week.

                The financial sector and defense industries were large backers of Obama because they knew he could win. If they sense he can't win in 2012 they'll be quick to shift their support. It doesn't take a genius to see the Administration's moves in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India are actually well thought out, pragmatic, and striking a reasonable balance between what the voters want and what the monied interests want. The defense industry, for example, will be fine with a scale back in Afghanistan if the Administration funds the Pakistan Army to buy more armaments.

                Frankly this Administration's handling of foreign policy has proven more astute than its hamfisted domestic moves, especially given the lousy hand they were dealt by the Bushies.

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                • #9
                  Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                  The US will not withdraw from Afghanistan as long as freshly printed dollars are accepted worldwide. They are still accepted.

                  Empires first go bankrupt, then they suffer a military/strategic defeat.

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                  • #10
                    Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                    Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                    Obama has clearly been positioning politically for "the collapse". Biden has already used the term depression and everybody was shocked like it was a Biden slip of the tongue. It wasn't. The "stimulus" is about the future rhetoric of failure and the placement of the "we tried" narrative in the public subconscious.
                    Biden's tune has changed slightly.

                    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...is-coming-bac/

                    Biden Tells CNN: Economy has 'hit bottom' and is coming back
                    Posted: October 30th, 2009 01:51 PM ET

                    http://www.politico.com/politico44/p...4830cd019.html

                    Declaring that the administration's recovery plan was working, Biden told his audience: "We're getting to the end of this toboggan run."

                    "We're no longer talking about a depression. We're talking about the shape of a recovery," he said.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                      how will they know who to trust in Pakistan? Maybe they can ...

                      Just wondering if it will be another case of inadvertently creating, nurturing & supplying the next Bin Laden (or 10) ... this time with nukes.

                      Or maybe this administration doesn't care? They'll be retired , let the next generation take care of those problems when they come up.

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      As for Pakistan...yes the USA will be in Pakistan, but not with its own troops as it is in Afghanistan. The veto of a "surge" in Afghanistan is undoubtedly going to be coincident with a material increase in funding for the Pakistan Army to fight a proxy war on behalf of the USA that it no longer has the stomach to fight for itself. Listen carefully to what Mrs. Clinton has been saying this week.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                        A few years ago, Syria was a terrorist state, Iraq too, Lebonon was in melt-down, Kuwait was at-risk, Palestine was at war with Isreal, and Saudi-Arabia was at-risk. But post- Iraq War, things actually look slightly better in the Middle East.

                        Now, to over-throw Iran and to hit the Taliban. And they will be hit.

                        The Taliban can be hit from ships at sea, and it would be an exercise in learning how to fight guerillas like that from a distance. We do have the technology to do it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                          Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
                          The misery index using Crude Oil prices as the true inflation measure and U6 as the unemployment figure, must be quite appalling in CA...
                          I moved back to CA fom FL this year to manage my real estate investments, and I can say with no hesitation that it is worse in CA than I can ever remember. As an example, I have regularly eaten in the original Cheesecake Factory on Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills since 1978. That restaurant has always been packed with a line out the door all the way back to 1978. I went there last Saturday night, and walked right in, asked for my regular table #3, and was immediately seated. The balance of the restaurant was about half full (in Beverly Hills on a Saturday night!!). Fuel prices are skyrocketing and my beloved vintage diesel now costs $0.40/gallon more to fill than just two weeks ago.
                          As bad as it is in CA, though, it is even worse in Florida. I have never seen so many desperate sellers in Port Royal, Naples, Florida, ever! Restaurants empty, beaches empty, realtors unable to convincingly market the $7M teardowns, a few people trying to act like all was well, but their faces said it all. The numbers of early-returned leased luxury vehicles on the dealers' lots in Naples will boggle your mind ... Tampa Bay area is also devastated including empty restaurants, international mall (maul) empty, downtown Saint Petersburg boarded up stores and the Chamber of Commerce unable (or unwilling) to add details to the closures. The story was the same in Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, and Arizona.
                          The only place I've been that did not seem to have been hit as hard was the area surrounding Branson Missouri. A very large new "Riverwalk" commercial development near table rock lake is nothing short of amazing and was full of people, shoppers and diners.
                          Lake Las Vegas was a ghost town ... (sorry Toll Bros) ... and I need not even address the deserted projects in Las Vegas proper.

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                          • #14
                            Re: California Enters Inflationary Depression- gregor

                            I must say things are still booming in Washington DC area. Big surprise there, ehh?

                            It may give politicians a bit of a false viewpoint, if they spend any time here at all.

                            The bounce in the economy is entirely due to "stimulus" and there is no recovery. It is completely fake. More and more money is being sucked rapidly from the "private" sector such as it is, and moved to the public sector.

                            This is being done so rapidly and with so little debate that the US' advantage over Europe, of being less socialized, is quickly disappearing.

                            This means that recovery of a meaningful sort is many years away. In reality, the entire decade of the 2000s has been a slow decline economically, now much more rapid, disguised by an intentional asset inflation sparked through overly easy real estate credit.

                            Now the only borrower to exist that can still borrow, Uncle Sam, is going like crazy and shortly at some point, in a year or 3, or who knows, default looms. Default through currency depreciation of course, not outright default.

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