American Idea.

[Starving Steve]

Re: American Idea.

Ever since "In God We Trust" appeared for the first time on U.S. coinage on the 2cent piece, introduced in 1864 to commemorate the dead of the Civil War, the slogan has become plastered onto everything: all coins, all currency, govn't buildings, Republican Party dogma, stamps, rightwing talkshows, everything! ( It bothers me. )

President Theodore Roosevelt noticed that "In God We Trust" was snuck onto U.S. gold coinage beginning in 1908. He made an issue of it--- and rightfully so.

Observing the tyranny in Iran, any mixing of religion with government has become a major concern of mine. I don't want an Iran here, or anywhere.

As far as Stalin is concerned, he did win the Sword of Stalingrad, no matter what the NRA might say about it..... Oh well, we won't get into that now. And yes, I am on my medication.

[Raz]

Re: American Idea.

It you do not trust government then the first step would be to remove the military, department of defence, pentagon, CIA, and FBI.

End of all wars and occupation of other people's land immediately.

That would be enough money to provide free education and health care to all Americans.

That would be the most American Idea of all.

Almost all Americans have forgot the American Idea was freedom from imperial powers and now America is one itself - that must be the starting point.

Now HERE is where we can agree.

True Conservatism would agree with almost everything you said here, the exception being the whole idea of "free" healthcare, "free" education or "free" anything else. Other than that I wholeheartily agree with your sentiments.

The NeoConservatives are the "boat-people" of the McGovern Revolution: those who fled the Democratic Party between 1970 and 1972 when she began her radical lurch Leftward. Unfortunately they brought with them their Wilsonian Utopianism. ("We must fight to make the world safe for democracy", said Woodrow Wilson, giving his reason for America to enter World War I. "Freedom is on the march", said George W. Dumbass, after he led America onto an aggressive war and didn't find the WMDs.)

This along with the Democrats' siren-song of "tax & spend, spend & elect", which the Republicans changed into "borrow & spend, spend & elect" is what ruined our country. Society also helped by embracing moral relativism.
I do not believe in income redistribution. It is nothing less than state sanctioned theft; it breeds dependency among the recipients and disdain for legitimate authority among those who are skinned.

HOWEVER, if we had an honest government that recognized the grotesque mutation that transformed our republic into an empire, rejected it, and replaced vote-buying lobbyists with a nationwide system of public financing for all Federal elections, thereby removing the moneychangers from the temple, we just might be able to rebuild a "fair and balanced" society where working people aren't robbed by the bankster's inflation, don't watch helplessly as their jobs are shipped overseas, and begin to actually build a tangible economy of value instead of the paper chase performed daily for the benefit of Goldman Sachs and their pimps at the Treasury and Fed. :mad:

[dcarrigg]

Re: American Idea.

Material like this should not have a place on this site. The creator's syndicate? It's just a bunch of partisan hackjobs - purely pro-GOP propaganda.

I mean come on, Sara Palin, George Bush, and Rush Limbaugh's pictures on the front page?!?!?!?!

Give me a break.

The following is from Walter Williams of George Mason University:

[lurker]

Re: American Idea.

Toast and MulaMan said it better than I could have. While I have some sympathy for Raz's position I still support government education and healthcare. Don't call them free, call them shared. We all have a stake in the health and education of the society.

Raz, I also think that both parties have always practised income redistribution. The democrats through welfare programs, but the republicans by arguing against minimum wage laws, and weakening employment protection. The republicans have a history of siding with large corporations to the detriment of the middle class and poor. This is equally a form of income redistribution, though upward, and not done by taxation, but by encouraging "might makes right".

I'm not hopeful for the future unless there is a dramatic change in the media. As we have witnessed on this site conservatives and liberals can find significant areas of agreement. However intelligent discussion, seeking agreement and compromise is actively discouraged by large sections of the media all in the name of ratings. This IMO borders on treason, as they're seriously undermining the future peace and stability of the nation.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: American Idea.

Government doesn't lead to atrocities necessarily. That's just inane. People lead to atrocities.

The US committed atrocities of the worst order against the native americans when they first moved there. At a time when there was little to no government, I might add. You can also point to countries around the world today with little to no government committing genocide and other terrible things .. why? Because they can.. Might makes right when there is no government. The weak is destroyed.

The reason the US was so successful was because the misfits from other other countries wanted to live in the new land where the power structure was not yet established. These misfits were obviously the ambitious risk takers and ambitious risk taking is what makes america great. Not some stupid extreme right wing dogma.

What I'd like to see is an area in the US where people can go live where there are no taxes and absolutely zero government. Everything is privatized. People will soon see that such an experiment is immediately doomed for failure.

What you have here is just some weak minded fool that keeps his position by writing fiction to support the political goals of the upper class in its eternal struggle with the lower and middle class.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: American Idea.

I still support state or local government education

There - I fixed your comment . Schools were much better in my youth, long ago, when they were purely funded and controlled by state and local government, than they are now, since the creation of an education bureacracy in Washington, DC. The odds are almost zero that some national bureacrat will pay more attention to the needs of my child or his teacher than they will to the needs of a few large and powerful interests wishing to manipulate, politicize or extract rent from our nationalized education system.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: American Idea.

Certainly there has been a fair amount of drivel, but I don't find it overly changed from before. I think the decline can be attributed to the economy.

When things plunged, I'm sure lots of people started visiting the site because it was one of the ones to "get it right". Now that things appear to be getting back to "normal" (my opinion: we're in the eye of the storm) they're dropping off.

It has certainly changed. Communists and conspiracy nuts abound on the internet. The internet, due to its antisocial nature, is a haven for those who feel powerless in their lives and have no one with whom to commiserate. So, they look to externalized reasons for their own difficulties and whine about it here, i.e. the "system" whether capitalism or the nefarious actions of some conspiratorial group.

Itulip did not have this element before, but now it does. It's annoying, and pointless. I have fairly radical political beliefs myself, but I appreciate that itulip primarily focuses on what the present power structure will most probably do.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: American Idea.

It has certainly changed. Communists and conspiracy nuts abound on the internet. The internet, due to its antisocial nature, is a haven for those who feel powerless in their lives and have no one with whom to commiserate. So, they look to externalized reasons for their own difficulties and whine about it here, i.e. the "system" whether capitalism or the nefarious actions of some conspiratorial group.

Itulip did not have this element before, but now it does. It's annoying, and pointless. I have fairly radical political beliefs myself, but I appreciate that itulip primarily focuses on what the present power structure will most probably do.

Ah - I get it. If it wasn't for those anti-social communist conspiracy nuts mucking up the internet, the internet would be more useful and enjoyable.

At least you and I are not whining and externalizing :rolleyes:. Good.

(Warning -- I have sarcastic and conspiratorial (though not communist) tendencies .)

[Raz]

Re: American Idea.

Toast and MulaMan said it better than I could have. While I have some sympathy for Raz's position I still support government education and healthcare. Don't call them free, call them shared. We all have a stake in the health and education of the society.

Raz, I also think that both parties have always practised income redistribution. The democrats through welfare programs, but the republicans by arguing against minimum wage laws, and weakening employment protection. The republicans have a history of siding with large corporations to the detriment of the middle class and poor. This is equally a form of income redistribution, though upward, and not done by taxation, but by encouraging "might makes right".

I'm not hopeful for the future unless there is a dramatic change in the media. As we have witnessed on this site conservatives and liberals can find significant areas of agreement. However intelligent discussion, seeking agreement and compromise is actively discouraged by large sections of the media all in the name of ratings. This IMO borders on treason, as they're seriously undermining the future peace and stability of the nation.

I don't support government anything where the private sector operates freely and fairly, but it isn't likely to do so in a totally unregulated environment. We can thank Robert Rubin (Democrat), Larry Summers (Democrat), Alan "the Maestro" Greenspan (Republican), Phil Graham (Republican) and a host of other bi-partisan frauds and idiots for repealing Glass-Steagall, blocking the CFTC, and otherwise encouraging the fiscal and economic insanity which has brought us to this sad end.

"Shared" has a nice sound to it, but it denies the reality of limited resources and almost unlimited human needs, while always assuming that we will have near-perfect altruistics overseeing and managing "government whatever". Taking an honest look at the history of Federal Agencies that provide something directly to consumers shows their record of efficiency and performance to vary between fair and horrible. Consider the Postal Service and Medicare.

I'm not opposed to public education, but I am unalterably opposed to the Department of Education. It has served to further the interests of Teacher's Unions which have a stranglehold on many school districts. And I stand firmly and unalterably on the doctrine of Subsidiarity.
Now if there were no way to reform/regulate the insurance industry in order to bust up the health cartel, I would be willing to consider some form of Federal involvement along the lines of a public insurance alternative; but, it will have to come after every possible means otherwise has been tried and found unworkable.

Yes, Lurker, the Republicans have a history of siding with corporate interests, but their recent history in that regard is little worse than the Democrats. They seem to stand up for small businesses while the Democrats formulate all manner of regulations, unfunded mandates and tax-schemes to impose on small businesses. And you seem to have overlooked the Democratic love-match with Labor Unions, Trial Lawyers and Public Employees Unions, many of whom are immersed in corruption, and in the case of the latter have forced salaries and benefits to the place where entire municipalities have been bankrupted.
Check out the latest on the City of Houston.

I do agree with your critique of the media, and while I listen to Fox News, I also listen to CNN. I find NBC to be a joke, and on Fox I just can't take any more of Hannity. I suppose all of this is what you get in a dumbed-down, polarized society. But contrary to what many people believe, it didn't begin with Fox News.

[Starving Steve]

Re: American Idea.

Just for a Joe Six-pack type of dumb remark: I like NBC the best for several really dumb reasons: CNBC, MSNBC, The Rachel Maddow Show, the Keith Oberman Count-down Show, General Electric which owns NBC, and of course, the NBC "brought to you in living-colour" peacock..... NBC has always been part of America, and it always will be the best part of America to me.

And yes, I do NOT always agree with Rachel Maddow or all of the commentary on NBC, but all of the commentary is interesting. Even Larry Kudlow on CNBC has interesting and provacative remarks, although he is a supply-side Republican and I don't always agree with him.

Over all, the best TV in America is still on NBC.;)

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: American Idea.

Ah - I get it. If it wasn't for those anti-social communist conspiracy nuts mucking up the internet, the internet would be more useful and enjoyable.

At least you and I are not whining and externalizing :rolleyes:. Good.

(Warning -- I have sarcastic and conspiratorial (though not communist) tendencies .)

I think that I will quote one my favorite sites that is overtly political. For the record, I tend to agree with most everything you write and was thinking of no one in particular really, although I do personally tend to find Comrade Steve's posts crazy.

6.5 Why is conspiracy thinking insane?

Conspiracy thinking is dangerous because it does not correctly associate blame, and in doing so, has people fighting a chimera they can never defeat while ignoring real problems. It is a form of scapegoating, where we identify a conscious evil entity instead of the actual enemy, which is a system design that institutes radical evil, or the mundane form of accepted ways of doing things that produces negative results by its lack of realism.

Common conspiracy targets are the military-industrial complex, "The Jew," the Masons, the Media, the Christian right, multinational corporations, and so on. These are more correctly referred to as "lobbies," or those who influence politics indirectly with money and favors and mass mobilization through media, and when they are successful as "oligarchs," or those who manipulate from behind the scenes with money and power and social influence. However, lobbies and oligarchs did not create the system as it is, nor do they control it, although they have power in it and profit from it. They are symptoms and not the disease. The disease is a bad social design that allows such things to happen.

It is beyond doubt that lobbies and oligarchs create damage and perpetuate the decline of a system, but it is a mistake to assign to them a shadowy role of controlling it or creating it, because one will be then fighting the lobby or oligarch -- which is one of many such entities -- and not focusing on fixing the system itself. Conspiracy thinking engenders a negative psychology of paranoia and symbolic thinking instead of directing the user toward a realism in which the social design is corrupt and can be fixed, and that fix will in itself eliminate the power of all lobbies and oligarchs, actually resolving the problem.

Most who subscribe to conspiracy thinking do so from the following psychological pragma: because X group is in control, and X group can never be beaten, there is nothing I can do of substance, therefore I will grumble and groan but I will not take practical action, because if I do so, X group will eliminate me. Conspiracy thinking is not only illogical, but it is a shallow psychological justification for inaction.

http://www.corrupt.org/data/faq/#6.5
http://www.corrupt.org/data/faq/#6.5

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: American Idea.

It is beyond doubt that lobbies and oligarchs create damage and perpetuate the decline of a system, but it is a mistake to assign to them a shadowy role of controlling it or creating it, because one will be then fighting the lobby or oligarch -- which is one of many such entities -- and not focusing on fixing the system itself. Conspiracy thinking engenders a negative psychology of paranoia and symbolic thinking instead of directing the user toward a realism in which the social design is corrupt and can be fixed, and that fix will in itself eliminate the power of all lobbies and oligarchs, actually resolving the problem.

Good quote. I agree.

[dummass]

Re: American Idea.

It you do not trust government then the first step would be to remove the military, department of defence, pentagon, CIA, and FBI.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You will need to find like minded people in the military and other key positions to support any real change in policy.

Do you actually believe that you can shake the parasite off by majority rule?

[FRED]

Re: American Idea.

Sorry, my fault. Global internet visits to Itulip.com are down 23% in the last 3 months. Perhaps correlated to the increasing number of "Stalin was great" and other similar postings that seem to be poping up rather often in the news section lately? I have been on here for several years and I don't remember as much of that kind of "stuff" when I started. If there had been, I probably would have been inclined to move on to something else too. I know I don't visit as often, because I simply don't have the time to wade through some of the BS junk that gets posted on here now. ALL internet forum sites have the potential to be seen as something of a joke when too many posts like this continue to crop up. I think Fred has referred to this also.(if I remember correctly). Save the Rants, crop circles, and other consipracy theories for Rant n Rave section.

Steve, we get it. You don't like Southerners, Pot smoking hippies, Republicans, etc.

A lot of sites try to post new articles every day to drive traffic. We don't pay any attention to traffic. It goes up and down. In the short term traffic is generally related to market activity. Traffic's probably down over the past several months because we're publishing longer and more detailed analysis and forecasts less frequently. Most Internet content consumers like little bite sized chunks of information, most of it recycled ideas. The long and detailed original arguments that we make here are not for everyone!

[jk]

Re: American Idea.

my guess is that itulip traffic is inversely correlated with the stock market. after all, the recession is over, right?:rolleyes: