Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

[cjppjc]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

Roger,

I've read many of your posts.

Do you have any stance as to the substance on the theories of "leaky gut syndrome"?



http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

I would also like to hear what Roger has to say about it.

[rogermexico]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

Well, for the past two years I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about metabolism and diet. That is where I have been.

"In fact, the evidence in favor of exercise is about the strongest you can find if you want statistical validity."

Wrong.

By exercise hypothesis, I mean the idea that the massive increase in obesity is due to the population exercising less than some fabled amount that we used to. This is a myth and there is no evidence to support it.

On the contrary, the increase in obesity is entirely due to changes in diet, especially the substitution of carbohydrates for animal fats.

The exercise hypothesis is not that " it is possible to lose weight exercising a lot". That is as trivial as observing that you can lose weight by never eating or cutting of your limbs with a chainsaw.

At my gym, everyone on the stupid "cardio" machines for an hour at a time is overweight. Works real well, I guess.

I weigh 153 lbs and exercise at most 2 hours a week including running at most 10 K per week. When I ran 50 K a week, I weighed 169. The difference is diet. If I instead ran 150 K and weighed the same as I do now, my immune system and joints would suffer and I would only have proved that I was a slow learner. I certainly would not have proved anything about the epidemiology of obesity.

If you got fat when you stopped exercising, it is because you don't know how to eat properly. If you eat properly, in a way that optimizes your insulin levels, you will not need to exercise to be at your optimal weight. At all.

You can still exercise to improve your physical performance or for fun. Nothing wrong with that.

If you observe that fat people are less active and conclude that that is why they are fat, you are confusing cause with effect.

Read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, then come back and argue with me.

[rogermexico]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

Thanks

You can read my essays about grains at my site for a start.

I am not familiar with the link you gave, but my position is that gluten grains are not fit for human consumption. Celiac disease with a proven adaptive immune response to gliadin proteins is only the tip of the iceberg.

The majority of people have some level of abnormal innate immune response to gluten grains. This causes a leaky gut in a dose- response manner. The leaky gut phenomenon allows foreign proteins to enter the bloodstream. The foreign protiens have sections that are homologous to our body's own protiens. The adaptive immune response to the foreign protiens causes immune response to the similar native proteins. This is what is referred to as molecular mimicry. The result, depending on the tissue attacked, is autoimmune diseases like grave's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren disease, Type I diabetes, Lupus erythematosis, Multiple sclerosis, etc.

I believe the risk of this can be mitigated, if not eliminated, by eliminating gluten grains from the diet. I have several patients and acquaintances who have actually reversed autoimmune diseases with diet, including Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

[strittmatter]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

Thanks

You can read my essays about grains at my site for a start.

I am not familiar with the link you gave, but my position is that gluten grains are not fit for human consumption. Celiac disease with a proven adaptive immune response to gliadin proteins is only the tip of the iceberg.

The majority of people have some level of abnormal innate immune response to gluten grains. This causes a leaky gut in a dose- response manner. The leaky gut phenomenon allows foreign proteins to enter the bloodstream. The foreign protiens have sections that are homologous to our body's own protiens. The adaptive immune response to the foreign protiens causes immune response to the similar native proteins. This is what is referred to as molecular mimicry. The result, depending on the tissue attacked, is autoimmune diseases like grave's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren disease, Type I diabetes, Lupus erythematosis, Multiple sclerosis, etc.

I believe the risk of this can be mitigated, if not eliminated, by eliminating gluten grains from the diet. I have several patients and acquaintances who have actually reversed autoimmune diseases with diet, including Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

Thank you for your input.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

By exercise hypothesis, I mean the idea that the massive increase in obesity is due to the population exercising less than some fabled amount that we used to. This is a myth and there is no evidence to support it.

From someone who eats well, stays healthy and avoids exercising -- Thanks! That was my favorite post of the day.

(As confirmation, I went from tired and overweight and brain fogged to healthy, alert and a weight that suits me just fine, all by just fixing my diet. It tends to be more a raw veggie diet than a paleo diet, but the key in my view is cutting out the industrially mutilated carbs and fats and chemicals. I still eat all I want and still don't exercise a lick.)

[jimmygu3]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

No evidence whatever for the exercise hypothesis. It is indeed the food pyramid with pasta and bread at it's base. Read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Taubes.

I, too, accuse the food pyramid.

Take out the grains, linoleic acid and excess fructose and eat real food meant for human consumption.

RM, I appreciate your PaNu research but "no evidence whatever for the exercise hypothesis"? People who get even a moderate amount of exercise are far healthier than their sedentary counterparts.

[rogermexico]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

RM, I appreciate your PaNu research but "no evidence whatever for the exercise hypothesis"? People who get even a moderate amount of exercise are far healthier than their sedentary counterparts.

"By exercise hypothesis, I mean the idea that the massive increase in obesity is due to the population exercising less than some fabled amount that we used to. This is a myth and there is no evidence to support it."

That's my claim and I'm sticking to it. You don't need to exercise to improve your insulin sensitivity if you are not ruining it with wheat and fructose in the first place.

Also, healthy people exercise and healthy people get medical checkups. Healthy people also go to church, believe in god, are more likely to be married, etc etc. Cause and effect must be proved with a randomized trial - it cannot be learned from a mere association.

Many people think marathon runners have less coronary heart disease. Would it suprpise you to learn they have the same or more than matched controls?

Running will save your life - another myth that started in the 70's. I used to believe that one, too. Now that I know better, it is not even biologically plausible.

[GRG55]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

...Running will save your life - another myth that started in the 70's. I used to believe that one, too. Now that I know better, it is not even biologically plausible.

James Fixx (1932–1984), American who made jogging a popular activity for cardiovascular fitness. His book The Complete Book of Running was published in 1978. He died of a heart attack while jogging.

[raja]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

Of my friends and acquaintances, I've notice that the youngest looking are the ones who exercise a lot . . . including me (I'm 60, but look considerably younger). Not scientific proof, but directly observable evidence suggesting to me a possible correlation.

From the theoretical perspective, humans evolved with lots of exercise, therefore the need for it is genetically encoded . . . as is the need for whole foods, supportive social relations, etc. Leave any one of these out, and you are not living up your potential, IMO.

Jim Fixx must have been missing other things in his life that led to his early death, such as a good diet. Or maybe he overdid the exercise.
Biological life is complex, so it is unwise to not consider all the important variables when deciding how to live . . . .

[rogermexico]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

James Fixx (1932–1984), American who made jogging a popular activity for cardiovascular fitness. His book The Complete Book of Running was published in 1978. He died of a heart attack while jogging.

Myocardial late gadolinium enhancement: prevalence, pattern, and prognostic relevance in marathon runners.

Breuckmann F, Möhlenkamp S, Nassenstein K, Lehmann N, Ladd S, Schmermund A, Sievers B, Schlosser T, Jöckel KH, Heusch G, Erbel R, Barkhausen J.
Department of Cardiology, West German Heart Center Essen, Essen, Germany.
Comment in:

• Radiology. 2009 Apr;251(1):3-5.

PURPOSE: To prospectively analyze the myocardial distribution of late gadolinium enhancement (LGE) with delayed-enhancement cardiac magnetic resonance (MR) imaging, to compare the prevalence of this distribution in nonprofessional male marathon runners with that in asymptomatic control subjects, and to examine the prognostic role of LGE. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Institutional review board and ethics committee approval were obtained for this study, and all subjects provided written informed consent. Two-dimensional inversion-recovery segmented k-space gradient-echo MR sequences were performed after administration of a gadolinium-containing contrast agent in 102 ostensibly healthy male runners aged 50-72 years who had completed at least five marathons during the past 3 years and in 102 age-matched control subjects. Predominantly subendocardial regions of LGE typical of myocardial infarction (hereafter, coronary artery disease [CAD] pattern) were distinguished from a predominantly midmyocardial patchy pattern of LGE (hereafter, non-CAD pattern). Marathon runners with LGE underwent repeat cardiac MR imaging and additional adenosine perfusion imaging. Runners were followed up for a mean of 21 months +/- 3 (standard deviation) after initial presentation. The chi(2), Fisher exact, and McNemar exact tests were used for comparisons. Event-free survival rates were estimated with the Kaplan-Meier method, and overall group differences were evaluated with log-rank statistics. RESULTS: Of the 102 runners, five had a CAD pattern of LGE, and seven had a non-CAD pattern of LGE. The CAD pattern of LGE was located in the territory of the left anterior descending coronary artery more frequently than was the non-CAD pattern (P = .0027, Fisher exact test). The prevalence of LGE in runners was higher than that in age-matched control subjects (12% vs 4%; P = .077, McNemar exact test). The event-free survival rate was lower in runners with myocardial LGE than in those without myocardial LGE (P < .0001, log-rank test). CONCLUSION: Ostensibly healthy marathon runners have an unexpectedly high rate of myocardial LGE, and this may have diagnostic and prognostic relevance.


The link below is an analysis of this study which may be of interest to anyone who believes marathon running is good for you.




http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2...t-disease.html

[jimmygu3]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

"By exercise hypothesis, I mean the idea that the massive increase in obesity is due to the population exercising less than some fabled amount that we used to. This is a myth and there is no evidence to support it."

I suppose we're making two different arguments. The idea that lack of exercise is the sole cause of the obesity rise is a direct affront to your diet thesis, and I tend to side with you on that. Diet is more to blame for obesity. However, pointing out marathon runners and exercise freaks who die early is a bit hyperbolic.

To paraphrase, your PaNu philosophy says that we ate one way for 99% of a million years, then switched our diet for the last 1% and gave rise to new health problems. Can't a similar parallel argument be made for modern sedentary lifestyles vs. those of Paleolithic times (PaEx?), or even 100 years ago? Humans have always needed to be moving around, hunting, gathering, walking, farming, etc. Compare that to an office full of people who think the walk to and from the parking deck is too far. A moderate amount of exercise is essential to good health.

Also, healthy people exercise and healthy people get medical checkups. Healthy people also go to church, believe in god, are more likely to be married, etc etc. Cause and effect must be proved with a randomized trial - it cannot be learned from a mere association.

As far as cause and effect, I have seen no proof from you that people get healthy solely because they eat a meat-based diet. When I am getting an appropriate amount of exercise and feeling healthy I tend to crave protein, so maybe a good diet is just another effect, rather than a cause. I say that to make a point- in reality I think that a reasonably good diet of real food and a sensible amount of exercise are both direct causes of health and well-being.

In the "chicken or the egg" dilemma, I assume you normally just eat them both. ;)

Jimmy

[rogermexico]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

"I suppose we're making two different arguments. The idea that lack of exercise is the sole cause of the obesity rise is a direct affront to your diet thesis, and I tend to side with you on that. Diet is more to blame for obesity. However, pointing out marathon runners and exercise freaks who die early is a bit hyperbolic."

Hyperbole? Did you read this?


"As far as cause and effect, I have seen no proof from you that people get healthy solely because they eat a meat-based diet."

Not meat based -animal fat based. The health improvement is because of what is not eaten. Read the hundreds of testimonials on my site if interested.

Linoleic acid, gluten grains and excess fructose are avoided.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Maybe Iceland is not so bad after all

However, pointing out marathon runners and exercise freaks who die early is a bit hyperbolic.

On the subject of exercise and longevity, the following was just linked from the Drudge Report site: SIMPLE SECRET OF A HEALTHY HEART.

Monday November 2,2009

By Victoria Fletcher

GENTLE exercise can dramatically cut the danger of an early death from heart disease, according to new research.

Just 30 minutes of jogging or cycling three times a week has amazing results for people with heart problems – the UK’s biggest killer – a study has found.

In just three months it slashed the risk of an early death by 60 per cent in those who followed the *fitness regime.

The results will come as welcome news for thousands of Britons who suffer from heart-related illness.

One-in-five men and one-in-seven women die of heart disease in the UK, equivalent to 250 deaths a day. Overall, 200,000 people die each year from conditions related to circulation, including strokes, heart attacks and heart disease.

These figures are expected to go up as the population ages and thanks also to a rise in obesity, which leads to furring of arteries.

The study, released today, found the biggest gains were in patients who were also stressed. The authors believe it is because stress can quadruple the risk of death in people with heart problems.

Exercise can offer the double benefit of reducing stress levels while also improving heart health.

The study concludes: “Exercise reduces mortality in patients with coronary artery disease…in part because of the effects on psycho*social stress.”

Patients with heart problems are usually put on drugs – statins to lower cholesterol and blood pressure pills – to reduce the risks.

But in recent years the NHS been pushing a rehabilitation programme that includes advice on diet, *exercise, smoking and stress.

Previous studies have demonstrated a wealth of life-prolonging benefits from exercise.

People who work out have a lower risk of contracting long-term conditions such as cancer, heart disease and neurological disorders. It also slows death and disability rates.

Exercise acts by improving the health of hearts and arteries, strengthening bones and reducing inflammation. It also boosts the immune system and improves thinking, learning and memory.

This latest study by the Department of Cardiology in New Orleans and published in the American *Journal of Medicine reveals in detail just how much these simple changes can boost lifespan.

The team followed 522 cardiac patients, including 53 who had high stress levels and 27 control patients who had high stress levels but who refused cardiac rehabilitation.

Patients were offered 12 weeks of exercise classes, where they did 10 minutes of warm-up, 30 to 40 *minutes of aerobic exercise such as walking, rowing or jogging, and then a 10-minute stretch to wind down.

The classes were three times a week and patients were also asked to try to do a further one-to-three exercise sessions a week.

They were also given advice on how to improve diet and lifestyle, and their progress was followed for up to six years.

Those who got fitter were 60 per cent less likely to die in the following six years. Exercise also helped reduce stress levels from one-in-10 patients to fewer than one-in-20 which in turn lowered the death rate for stressed patients by 20 per cent.

However, the weight of patients did not change much, suggesting the benefits are from exercise alone.

Health charities welcomed the report. The British Heart Foundation, said: “This study proves once again that exercise has both psychological and physical benefits for patients with heart disease.

“Health authorities must ensure that all suitable heart patients are offered cardiac rehabilitation.

“Structured, well-resourced programmes have been shown to improve physical and psychological wellbeing and reduce mortality.”