is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

[karim0028]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

I should have symmmmmmmmmpathy for those foreclosed out of their homes?

Weren't these some of the same people involved in those liar-loans arranged by the maestro, Alan Greenspan? They didn't know that house prices could go down? Or they didn't know that someday they might lose their job or get sick? They didn't think that someday there might be a reckoning for Reaganomics, or they didn't care to know, especially when interest rates were low, and their downpayment ( their skin in the game ) was next-to-nothing.

Symmmmmmmmpathy for the people who bet on windmills and solar panels as America's salvation?

Symmmmmmmpathy for the people who trusted the free market, who preached market-based solutions to problems like aging, unemployment, and healthcare?

Symmmmmmmmmpathy for the laid-off senior teachers who ran the public schools back-to-basics under George Bush, back to English-only, back to white history and American nationalism?

No, Audrey, I am rather sitting-back now, and I am enjoying this reckoning. And while Greenpeace calls me "a climate-change criminal", I am sitting-back and collecting my dividends from oil and gas trusts. My atomic energy stocks are looking better now, too.

Yes, Audrey, I am still starving in East Sooke, but at least I will enjoy "respectable poverty" during these times because I prepared for these bad years. I saved and skrimpt. And I planned for these times while others around me partied, divorced, drank lattes, and bought Hummers.

Hey Steve,

You gotta remember, there are alot of people who have no real financial education and as such really didnt know any better..... They were essentially suckers to be put under the steam roller for FIRE.... Not everyone went into this thinking i'm gonna get mine.... Alot of these are poor folks who thought, why cant i have a nice house as well; and when you have people from the president on down talking about how its your "right" to own a house its pretty easy to fall for the koolaid..

Its still being sold now, "buy while rates are low" BS, i shutter at what happens when rates go up....

[pwcmba]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Can't even keep our slow trains on the rails!

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...t-breakingnews

"Derailment expected to delay evening Metra trains"

and bus the Amtrak passangers

[snakela]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Hey Steve,

You gotta remember, there are alot of people who have no real financial education and as such really didnt know any better..... They were essentially suckers to be put under the steam roller for FIRE.... Not everyone went into this thinking i'm gonna get mine.... Alot of these are poor folks who thought, why cant i have a nice house as well; and when you have people from the president on down talking about how its your "right" to own a house its pretty easy to fall for the koolaid..

Its still being sold now, "buy while rates are low" BS, i shutter at what happens when rates go up....

You can extend that train of thought even further with education. People are constantly told they need higher education if they want to do more than flip burgers. You may be a debt slave after a college degree, but the standard of living is higher.

Of course, thats unless you spent 4 years and $120,000 studying ancient religous practices or something.


I'm sure there's some interesting thesis work for anyone studying game theory. With super cheap money, is there an equilibrium in the "keep up with the Jones" game and the higher education game.
Looks like there is to me.

[dcarrigg]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

I've seen a lot of this in America for years - and the living is meager. Former employees of a shut down Midas will do break-work in garages - even in EJ's Lexington, MA. Illegal taxi services are all over NYC.

Sometimes the micro-business is drugs, in which case the money might not be so meager.

Regardless - I think that this is much more common than you probably think -it's just not in-your-face outside of economically depressed urban areas.

One of the things I've noticed in 3rd world countries is that the people who are hopelessly unemployed always try to start their own micro-type businesses. They do car repair in their garage, or taxi service, or sewing, or most of all, food services. I'll be looking to see how many street corner/garage businesses start to pop up around the country. Many of them will be cash businesses in a growing underground economy and will be barely big enough to scratch out a meager existence. They won't want much to do with the government so I suspect the unemployment numbers won't be counting them.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Inspired by some of the work bart has posted, I'm putting together a historical view of poverty levels vs. unemployment.

rising unemployment = rising poverty, and the unemployment levels we're seeing are going to translate to poverty levels closer to what we see in 3rd world nations. How close, that's what is scary...

An excerpt from the '70s stagflation era:



Note how a trough to peak change in unemployment of +3.9% yielded a poverty rate change of 3.3%, with a trough to peak of 3.8%.

Suffice it to say that if the same behavior holds true for the present period with peak unemployment reaching the iTulip predicted 11%, the poverty rate will likely exceed 17% sometime thereafter.

Of course it could be much worse: the high inflation years of the late '70s/early to mid 80s had a relatively low unemployment rate change: +1.3%, +0.5%, +2.1% whereas 2008 to 2009 will see a jump of at least 2% and possibly as high as 3% with an accompanying unemployment trough to peak of +5.4%.

This would yield a 17.7% poverty rate using similar behavior to the stagflation era.

Not very impressive for the richest nation in the world.

The US is not even close to poverty, and with the right-to-lifers still a pertinent force in what the US does to continue its per capital resource consumption, the US can support a lot more people and still be better off that all the dumb third world countries.



And when one looks at the uncontrolled overpopulation in Africa, it literally makes one sick. WhoTF is in charge that allows a giraffe to maintain two offspring. Jeezus, consider just how much of the earth's resources that consumes. Giraffes aren't worth anything anyway, who eats giraffe meat?

[audrey_girl]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

I should have symmmmmmmmmpathy for those foreclosed out of their homes?

Weren't these some of the same people involved in those liar-loans arranged by the maestro, Alan Greenspan? They didn't know that house prices could go down? Or they didn't know that someday they might lose their job or get sick? They didn't think that someday there might be a reckoning for Reaganomics, or they didn't care to know, especially when interest rates were low, and their downpayment ( their skin in the game ) was next-to-nothing.

Symmmmmmmmpathy for the people who bet on windmills and solar panels as America's salvation?

Symmmmmmmpathy for the people who trusted the free market, who preached market-based solutions to problems like aging, unemployment, and healthcare?

Symmmmmmmmmpathy for the laid-off senior teachers who ran the public schools back-to-basics under George Bush, back to English-only, back to white history and American nationalism?

No, Audrey, I am rather sitting-back now, and I am enjoying this reckoning. And while Greenpeace calls me "a climate-change criminal", I am sitting-back and collecting my dividends from oil and gas trusts. My atomic energy stocks are looking better now, too.

Yes, Audrey, I am still starving in East Sooke, but at least I will enjoy "respectable poverty" during these times because I prepared for these bad years. I saved and skrimpt. And I planned for these times while others around me partied, divorced, drank lattes, and bought Hummers.

you are very right about people acting irresponsibly, but they are still people and shouldn't have to live like this

my 2 cents

more uglieness:

[tastymannatees]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

you are very right about people acting irresponsibly, but they are still people and shouldn't have to live like this

my 2 cents

more uglieness:

I agree, I could care less for the irresponsible people but at the same time I think most played by the rules ,saved money and can be fairly called victims.


Spend a few billion on FEMA type trailers, put a roof over their heads give them some food. Drop in the bucket compared to what taxes are coming our way.

[flintlock]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

I've seen a lot of this in America for years - and the living is meager. Former employees of a shut down Midas will do break-work in garages - even in EJ's Lexington, MA. Illegal taxi services are all over NYC.

Sometimes the micro-business is drugs, in which case the money might not be so meager.

Regardless - I think that this is much more common than you probably think -it's just not in-your-face outside of economically depressed urban areas.

I agree. I've seen it too.

[flintlock]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Sure there are a LOT of irresponsible people who have been foreclosed on. But there also are a lot who played by the rules but lost their jobs/ had their jobs outsourced/ etc. Eventually the savings runs out, and the meager pay of some workers didn't allow for a whole lot of savings to begin with. I say cut them some slack. They were not all living large with liar loans and pay option mortgages.

[dcarrigg]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

It's a few months old, but it's straight to the point of this thread:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...7282720.column

maybe create one to start collecting stories like this?

UC Berkeley to admit more out-of-state students:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...89U6.DTL&tsp=1

or this:

Foreclosures Force Ex-Homeowners to Turn to Shelter

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/bu...O10z%20VHH81SQ

[cjppjc]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

It's a few months old, but it's straight to the point of this thread:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...7282720.column

A few months old?

[Starving Steve]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

A few months old?

I agree with the article from The Los Angeles Times.

Even more than rightfully blaming the outright greed and irresponsibility of the yuppies and pot-heads for this American economic decline to Turd World status, I blame the irresponsible low interest rate monetary policies of the United States Federal Reserve Bank under Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke. So here we are now: in the toilet-tank together.

Part of the tragedy of this experience is that the monetary authorities have NOT learned their lesson. The outrageously accommodative lending policies for debtors and government has not been changed one bit..... This is truly an amazing experience.

Thank you, to the Los Angeles Times for printing the truth.

[Raz]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Sure there are a LOT of irresponsible people who have been foreclosed on. But there also are a lot who played by the rules but lost their jobs/ had their jobs outsourced/ etc. Eventually the savings runs out, and the meager pay of some workers didn't allow for a whole lot of savings to begin with. I say cut them some slack. They were not all living large with liar loans and pay option mortgages.

I agree.

And we would have adequate funds to help them - if scum-sucking, rat-bastards like Bernanke,
Geithner, Paulson and Summers hadn't given it all to their bankster buddies. :mad:

[Slimprofits]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Now the thread title fits:

After the Billionaires Plundered Alabama Town, Troops Were Called in ... Illegally
By Mark Ames, AlterNet. Posted October 24, 2009

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/14...ly?page=entire

[dcarrigg]

Re: is there a "Wow, we are turning into a third world country thread?"

Ok..A year old

A few months old?