Political villian to hero - public health care

[MulaMan]

Politics can work in strange ways sometimes - Roland Burris is now the hero if he follows through with this - Insruance companies spent over $100 million this year to bribe democrats, especially senators, to drop the public option.

Obama is fighting hard with his own party to get it back in or keep it as an option.

True competition in health insurance with a public option is death to the health care oligarchs in America.

A group of monkeys (like FEMA) could run a health insurance company and cut 30% off existing rates and still be profitiable, now if we got a group serious business people (no Wharton MBAs allowed) in charge of public health insurance the results could be dramatic.

I'm still not betting on the public option because it is amazing what a $100 million political lobbying and marketing campaign can do to brain dead Americans and corrupt politicians.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33383578...-capitol_hill/

[jiimbergin]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

Politics can work in strange ways sometimes - Roland Burris is now the hero if he follows through with this - Insruance companies spent over $100 million this year to bribe democrats, especially senators, to drop the public option.

Obama is fighting hard with his own party to get it back in or keep it as an option.

True competition in health insurance with a public option is death to the health care oligarchs in America.

A group of monkeys (like FEMA) could run a health insurance company and cut 30% off existing rates and still be profitiable, now if we got a group serious business people (no Wharton MBAs allowed) in charge of public health insurance the results could be dramatic.

I'm still not betting on the public option because it is amazing what a $100 million political lobbying and marketing campaign can do to brain dead Americans and corrupt politicians.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33383578...-capitol_hill/

I am sorry, but I strongly disagree that a group of monkeys could run a health insurance company and cut 30% off existing rates. Can you back that up with anything but an opinion:rolleyes:

[BK]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

Would these Business People that might fix Health care bare any resemblance to the Politically connected Business People that ran Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac?

Perhaps these Business types might be more like the Politically connected types running the Connector - the Medical Insurance Authority created by Mitt Romney and the gang of theives in the Mass legislature. Have you seen the hole that the Mass Health Insurance plan has put in the Budget of Massachusetts?

[jdv]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

A group of monkeys (like FEMA) could run a health insurance company and cut 30% off existing rates and still be profitiable, now if we got a group serious business people (no Wharton MBAs allowed) in charge of public health insurance the results could be dramatic.

Then I'm suprised Health Insurance companies aren't routinely the most profitable organizations in America. (Insurance - not HMO's or providers) You should be owning large blocks of their stocks if it's such easy money!

I work for a mutual insurance company. Mid sized, about 3B in premiums. We are oriented toward business lines - not consumers. Being a mutual company, that means we refund any profits to policyholders. And health is by far our least profitable line, pretty much a money loser. Though I'm sure the Insurance haters will say that's because we are such poor business people.

But I'll ask.... There are lots of mutual companies in lots of different Insurance lines of business. Being essentially non-profit cooperatives, how come all these mutual companies can't easily undercut all the stock companies if the profits are so fat?

[metalman]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

Then I'm suprised Health Insurance companies aren't routinely the most profitable organizations in America. (Insurance - not HMO's or providers) You should be owning large blocks of their stocks if it's such easy money!

I work for a mutual insurance company. Mid sized, about 3B in premiums. We are oriented toward business lines - not consumers. Being a mutual company, that means we refund any profits to policyholders. And health is by far our least profitable line, pretty much a money loser. Though I'm sure the Insurance haters will say that's because we are such poor business people.

But I'll ask.... There are lots of mutual companies in lots of different Insurance lines of business. Being essentially non-profit cooperatives, how come all these mutual companies can't easily undercut all the stock companies if the profits are so fat?

that is an excellent question. and the answer is...

[jimmygu3]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

Then I'm suprised Health Insurance companies aren't routinely the most profitable organizations in America. (Insurance - not HMO's or providers) You should be owning large blocks of their stocks if it's such easy money!

I work for a mutual insurance company. Mid sized, about 3B in premiums. We are oriented toward business lines - not consumers. Being a mutual company, that means we refund any profits to policyholders. And health is by far our least profitable line, pretty much a money loser. Though I'm sure the Insurance haters will say that's because we are such poor business people.

But I'll ask.... There are lots of mutual companies in lots of different Insurance lines of business. Being essentially non-profit cooperatives, how come all these mutual companies can't easily undercut all the stock companies if the profits are so fat?

jdv,

First, I don't agree that monkeys could undercut them 30% or whatever. But my understanding is that the advantages of a national public option over co-ops are in the economies of scale and bargaining power that such a company would have with providers and pharmaceutical companies, as well as comparatively lower costs for administrative, marketing and executive compensation.

As for why Americans would choose it, I think in part it's because it would allow full nationwide portability for those who lose their job and/or relocate. Also, the public option would not be subsidized by taxpayer dollars. Individuals who cannot afford insurance would be given the choice between private and public plans, and the government would pay all or a portion of their premiums.

A question for you, since you're in the industry: why do you think the insurers want to kill the public option so badly?

Jimmy

[mooncliff]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

jdv,

First, I don't agree that monkeys could undercut them 30% or whatever. But my understanding is that the advantages of a national public option over co-ops are in the economies of scale and bargaining power that such a company would have with providers and pharmaceutical companies, as well as comparatively lower costs for administrative, marketing and executive compensation.

As for why Americans would choose it, I think in part it's because it would allow full nationwide portability for those who lose their job and/or relocate. Also, the public option would not be subsidized by taxpayer dollars. Individuals who cannot afford insurance would be given the choice between private and public plans, and the government would pay all or a portion of their premiums.

A question for you, since you're in the industry: why do you think the insurers want to kill the public option so badly?

Jimmy

New York Times just reported on health and health insurance in Hawaii. Hawaii has the longest life expectancy and about the lowest health care costs in the US. We have had nonprofits such as HMSA for a long time.

I suspect the low health care costs are in part due to high vitamin D levels because it is so sunny in most places most of the year in Hawaii (ultraviolet light makes vitamin D).
Sunny Okinawa has one of the longest life expectancies.
http://www.okicent.org/
Multiple sclerosis is highest in northern Japan and lowest in southern Japan.
Therefore, it might be difficult to replicate the health care performance of Hawaii elsewhere.
I take vitamin D supplements, 2,000 units. I think risk of overdose is extremely low. Doing that might make up for less sunlight

Fascinating story of how medical costs can vary enormously from one town to the next.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=113571111


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/he...i.html?_r=1&em

[kartius919]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

Insurance company's are very profitable. There is Aetna, Cigna, United, WellPoint. Several large, very profitable corporations control the vast majority of health care policies in this country. Why can't smaller companies undercut the larger ones? Barriers to competition (a lot through government regulation) and economies of scale. Health insurance requires a large base of healthy individuals to cover the cost of sicker ones. Larger base allows for a larger healthy base and healthier profits. Since most policies are employer sponsored, the long term sickos will be cutoff from insurance and continued payout if they remain sick for too long. Mid-sized is still small in comparison to the large firms.

[jdv]

Re: Political villian to hero - public health care

jdv,

A question for you, since you're in the industry: why do you think the insurers want to kill the public option so badly?

Jimmy

I'm a computer guy, not an insurance guy. And I don't interact to the insurance guys for the most part. I have no stake in this debate except as a consumer.

My personal opinion is that Insurance is a stupid method to fund anything but the extremely rare. And annual checkups, colostomies, flu shots, arthrititus medication are not rare. So other than catastrophic insurance, I don't think that insurance is the way to do health care. There is no incentive for the provider or the patient to limit costs!

And nothing I have seen from congress seems to be targetted at lowering costs.

I'd like to see:
- free preventative care funded by the goverment.
- Catastrophic health cost insurance funded by the goverment. Say $50,000 or greater before this kicks in.
- Self funded health accounts where once you reached a certain threshold of reserves (like $50,000) you no longer needed to add more funds. And when you die, the money is yours.

We need to get the consumer to care about costs. That will force providers to compete.