Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

[mooncliff]

The energy value of the estimated new supply of "ice that burns" is equivalent to 255.5 billion barrels of crude oil; approximately, 200 times the domestic production of oil. Immediately after the announcement, the Shanghai market witnessed the value of the energy company shares sky rocket.

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=e...5&geo=6&size=A

[Starving Steve]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

The energy value of the estimated new supply of "ice that burns" is equivalent to 255.5 billion barrels of crude oil; approximately, 200 times the domestic production of oil. Immediately after the announcement, the Shanghai market witnessed the value of the energy company shares sky rocket.

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=e...5&geo=6&size=A

The pot-heads in British Columbia and the Govn't of Canada have been having fantasies for years about the Holy Grail of energy: "the ice that burns", frozen methane.

Yes, there is ice-that-burns on this planet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of ice-that-burns around the Earth, just waiting to be found and used. Yes, there is methyl-hydrate under the sea and also, apparently in Tibet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of it available just waiting to be placed in a boat or ore train.

Another Holy Grail of energy is tidal power, also wind power, also solar, also geo-thermal. All of them are a joke.

Yes, you can dig down deep enough and get heat from geo-thermal. Yes, you can build tidal power plants. Yes, you can build wind-mills that are thirty stories tall. And yes, you can lift frozen methane from the deep sea. All of this is possible..... But NO, you can not develop cheap alternatives to fossil fuels, hydro-electric power, or atomic power.

If the Chinese stock market has rallied on news of "ice-that-burns", it's time to SELL.:rolleyes:

[mooncliff]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

The pot-heads in British Columbia and the Govn't of Canada have been having fantasies for years about the Holy Grail of energy: "the ice that burns", frozen methane.

Yes, there is ice-that-burns on this planet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of ice-that-burns around the Earth, just waiting to be found and used. Yes, there is methyl-hydrate under the sea and also, apparently in Tibet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of it available just waiting to be placed in a boat or ore train.

Another Holy Grail of energy is tidal power, also wind power, also solar, also geo-thermal. All of them are a joke.

Yes, you can dig down deep enough and get heat from geo-thermal. Yes, you can build tidal power plants. Yes, you can build wind-mills that are thirty stories tall. And yes, you can lift frozen methane from the deep sea. All of this is possible..... But NO, you can not develop cheap alternatives to fossil fuels, hydro-electric power, or atomic power.

If the Chinese stock market has rallied on news of "ice-that-burns", it's time to SELL.:rolleyes:

Hmm, I don't understand. This is a fossil fuel.

How do you know what the characteristics of the deposit are and how it might be developed? The Chinese themselves don't know. Sure it might turn out to be much less than promised, but the reason I posted this is I guess most people are unfamiliar with clathrates, so it is just another piece of common knowledge we should all have.

I have had a solar water heater for 30 years. My total energy bill per month has been $50, whereas my neighbors' have been $150 to $200. Maybe it doesn't work where you live, but it has saved me $30,000 dollars so far. I am getting ready to install photovoltaics, and since we are supposed to get a feed-in tariff at the going electrical rate, my electric bill should drop to around zero, and I should make about $300 a month, which will be enough to pay for water, insurance, property taxes, and maintenance, so the house will become free in perpetuity. We will see how it actually turns out, and I will give a detailed accounting. This took me hundreds of hours to figure out, but in the end, the retrofit of a 50 year old house was free because I used the $30,000 I saved on the electric bill. My mom is poor and living on social security, so this is important.

If you want to give all these reasons why something won't work, whereas I have already done half of it and am about to finish the project, go ahead. I don't want to make you mad, but I do not understand why you are screaming and yelling about these kinds of things when you have not seen my retrofit first hand and have not seen details of the clathrate field. Is this one of those "your religion is fake but mine is real" problems? You are failing to take into account that technologies are improving exponentially. I just installed LED light bulbs that use 1/10th the energy of an incandescent and 1/2 the energy of a compact fluorescent... because in spite of the upfront investment, in the long run, it is cheaper. When I install the photovoltaics next year, I will post pictures of the installation and give data on what happened.

So I agree with
"But NO, you cannot develop cheap alternatives to fossil fuels, hydro-electric power, or atomic power"
because what I did was not "cheap", the cost was ZERO.

[MulaMan]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Yes this will be huge "we are supposed to get a feed-in tariff at the going electrical rate"

I hope other states follow. It will spark entreprenurial energy to drastically reduce America's use of oil, Exxon was caught napping by this but can be sure they are ramping up a massive campaign to stop it.

The screamers on these boards all watch Fox News and then reguritate what they hear.

Solar is a no brainer and can easily supply all house hold energy needs in America within 10 years for less then it cost for us to invade Iraq and kill thousands of innocent people for no reason.

[bw]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Yes, there is ice-that-burns on this planet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of ice-that-burns around the Earth, just waiting to be found and used. Yes, there is methyl-hydrate under the sea and also, apparently in Tibet, but NO, there are not vast quantities of it available just waiting to be placed in a boat or ore train.

Pipeline, not ore train. Turn it to gas and pipe the gas. What this discovery suggests is that there IS at least one vast quantity available. Should we skip developing it?

Yes, you can dig down deep enough and get heat from geo-thermal. Yes, you can build tidal power plants. Yes, you can build wind-mills that are thirty stories tall. And yes, you can lift frozen methane from the deep sea. All of this is possible..... But NO, you can not develop cheap alternatives to fossil fuels, hydro-electric power, or atomic power.

You are very confident in your replies. I find it difficult to type when I wave my arms that much.

[ggirod]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Let us hope that, indeed, they can develop those clathrates into usable Natural Gas. Every cubic meter of clathrate will yield 168 or so cubic meters of gas, so it is pretty viable if the deposits are rich and accessible. There are various ways to release the gas so it is likely they can develop the deposits when the price gets reasonable. For the curious, lots of information is available in the Wikipedia

In fact, if the deposits are handy, they might consider developing them anyway, even if it's expensive because methane is also a potent greenhouse gas, 10-15 times the power of carbon dioxide. The only thing worse than burning it is letting it vent to the atmosphere. But, that said, if they just wait around for a while, warming and snowpack melting will naturally release it. The resulting planetary warming will melt and help release even more in Siberia, Canada, and other places and speed warming effects. What, Me Worry?

[jtabeb]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Let us hope that, indeed, they can develop those clathrates into usable Natural Gas. Every cubic meter of clathrate will yield 168 or so cubic meters of gas, so it is pretty viable if the deposits are rich and accessible. There are various ways to release the gas so it is likely they can develop the deposits when the price gets reasonable. For the curious, lots of information is available in the Wikipedia

In fact, if the deposits are handy, they might consider developing them anyway, even if it's expensive because methane is also a potent greenhouse gas, 10-15 times the power of carbon dioxide. The only thing worse than burning it is letting it vent to the atmosphere. But, that said, if they just wait around for a while, warming and snowpack melting will naturally release it. The resulting planetary warming will melt and help release even more in Siberia, Canada, and other places and speed warming effects. What, Me Worry?

Burn it, before you loose it.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Yes this will be huge "we are supposed to get a feed-in tariff at the going electrical rate"

I hope other states follow. It will spark entreprenurial energy to drastically reduce America's use of oil, Exxon was caught napping by this but can be sure they are ramping up a massive campaign to stop it.

The screamers on these boards all watch Fox News and then reguritate what they hear.

Solar is a no brainer and can easily supply all house hold energy needs in America within 10 years for less then it cost for us to invade Iraq and kill thousands of innocent people for no reason.

If you want to put solar energy panels on your roof or dig for "the ice that burns" or dig for geo-thermal, then fine. But please use your own money and not the public purse.

One more thing, please allow private companies to provide me with central heating in British Columbia. Let me live my life the way I want to. Please do not put-up barriers to power plant construction, uranium mining, barriers to construction of pipelines and laterals, prohibitions against dam building, etc.

I should have every right to heat my home the way I want to, not to mention to choose my power-provider from the market place, not just BC Hydro.

I promise, when I get back to British Columbia, you will hear from me on CFAX 1070, and I will launch a campaign in Victoria to expose the entire lot of eco-nuts running our Province.

[ricket]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

One more thing, please allow private companies to provide me with central heating in British Columbia. Let me live my life the way I want to. Please do not put-up barriers to power plant construction, uranium mining, barriers to construction of pipelines and laterals, prohibitions against dam building, etc.

Your "private" company better not get a dime of government subsidies, bailouts, or tax breaks, or favored laws that allow them to compete unfairly. Your mindset of 'private companies are SOOOOO awesome' is so skewed by lies that what you think a real private company should be, and your blind following and raving about it, well all that it does is make you look like a complete fool.

Solar power is the future. It's the only thing that has ever given us the capabilities to sustain life on this planet. If it werent for the sun, we wouldnt have oil in the first place. Harnessing solar power will be the ultimate solution to our energy needs. There's nothing special that has to be done other than figuring out how to store such a vast amount of energy and be able to reuse it at our convenience.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Your "private" company better not get a dime of government subsidies, bailouts, or tax breaks, or favored laws that allow them to compete unfairly. Your mindset of 'private companies are SOOOOO awesome' is so skewed by lies that what you think a real private company should be, and your blind following and raving about it, well all that it does is make you look like a complete fool.

Solar power is the future. It's the only thing that has ever given us the capabilities to sustain life on this planet. If it werent for the sun, we wouldnt have oil in the first place. Harnessing solar power will be the ultimate solution to our energy needs. There's nothing special that has to be done other than figuring out how to store such a vast amount of energy and be able to reuse it at our convenience.

And just how to you store vast amounts of Direct Current solar energy? --- a building with batteries in it?

And what do those batteries cost in the out-building of battery back-up?

And what does the whole system cost including the DC to AC converter, plus the panels, plus the rotator system, plus the mirrors, plus the real estate costs, plus the wiring, plus the labour?

And then what happens if we have especially cloudy weather, fog, rain, for days on end? --- So then, you need the grid as a back-up? And then you need the accounting devices to meter-out from the grid and meter-out from your system to spin the electric meter in reverse.

Son, you are talking big coin. "KACHINGA".

And the tidal power system that just didn't quite work in the Sooke Basin was another kachinga. And the methane-hydrate ( "the ice that burns" ) is another kachinga. :rolleyes:

[Raz]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

...The screamers on these boards all watch Fox News and then reguritate what they hear. ...

I'm not a "screamer", Mulaman, but I do listen to Fox News.
Hannity is a spinnmeister ignoramus, and O'Reily is a blowhard, but he's better than Olbermann's insufferable ad-hominem hate rants.

It's far from perfect, but they at least make some attempt to present both sides of an issue.
CNBC makes NO attempt whatsoever to present an opposing view to the Democratic/Leftist line. NONE.

And while screamers aren't good, neither are insulters.
From my recollection that seems to be your specialty.

[ricket]

Re: Huge methane hydrate discovery in China

Son, you are talking big coin. "KACHINGA".

When your 'private' company runs out of oil (which *will* happen in the short term future, ie less than 100 years, as it is not an unlimited resource), then I'll take my building full of batteries over your vehicle that doesnt run.