The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Oh you're a pilot too I understand now.

And I was talking about the picture you see when you click on her/his username.

Yes, and he, not she, must have fallen out of their chair with laughter because I had not gone to see if there was another picture of what I thought was a woman but is also a man.... Grrrrr!! So thanks Anon for putting me right!

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

I did get a good chuckle ... thanks . I wish I were a pilot. Maybe someday.

[dummass]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Embarressed to say the least. I am a MAN! Chris stands for Christopher.

This is getting confusing. Can we get these gender issues settled, here and now. Which of you are men (or want to be men) and which of you are women? Come on... out of the closet... time to fess up.

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Well, I was a man until I took the H1N1 vaccine and then things started to change. Alex Jones was right swine flu is a giant conspiracy to turn us all into Gold Buying Women! ;)

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Best laugh I have had for weeks.

Thanks everyone.

[ASH]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

He forgets to mention the banksters that are raking billions in interest payments on both sides of the transaction. There is a winner and there is a loser in this, he just can't see the forest because of all the trees...

Not on these transactions, ricket. As far as the government account series bonds are concerned, the government is awarding interest to itself, and paying the interest by increased debt issuance... to itself. As far as I am aware, no external private banking institutions are involved, because these bonds are not marketable, and are never issued on the open market.

By the way, this internal transaction is the reason why the annual increase of our national debt doesn't match the published deficit (meaning both the transfer of FICA revenue from the trust funds to the general fund when SS runs a "surplus" and also the interest payments made by the Treasury to the trust funds on their GAS bonds, which causes the GAS debt to compound as long as a "surplus" is run).

I made these slides a few years ago. The figures are out-dated, but the mechanics are basically sound. I think the major defect is that I depict the entirety of the government-held debt as belonging to Social Security and Medicare, when in fact a substantial portion is held by other government agencies and funds. However, it simplified the diagram.

[metalman]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

excellent! this finally makes sense to me... thx for posting it.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

It [the Obama administration would ... create yet another mechanism by which to mask the transfer of government deficits] smacks of yet more right-wing fearmongering about the terrible fate that awaits Americans if we only allow Obama to try to move our healthcare system even slightly closer to the universal care systems provided by every other developed nation.

I'd suggest that you're half right. I agree that the negative reference to Obama shows a right wing bias, however your labeling it "right-wing fearmongering" shows a left wing bias.

Allow me to attempt to step back from either bias and suggest the following. Perhaps the risk is neither the "socialized takeover of a big chunk of our economy" (that right wingers decry) or the "FUBAR healthcare system that fails to provide universal health care despite its great cost" (that left wingers decry.) Rather the risk may be that our failed health care system will continue to fail.

Our health care system does a great job of generating immense profits for a few large corporations, but a lousy job of providing good health care for most Americans most of the time. The risk is that this will continue to be the case even if Congress passes some major health care legislation this year. The major drug, insurance and medical companies may surely have acquired sufficient control of Congress and the bureacracy that the only consequence of such a bill will be more profits for them, with no particular improvement in our health.

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

I tend to agree. But, we assume that the health care system will not fail as catastrophically as the financial system last year. Will Americans put up with subsidizing Aetna, United, and BC&BS after they have learned that these companies make 30% profit and get crappy health care. Just look at how they managed to stop Goldman Sachs after those types screwed up the general economy. Oh, that's right I guess I was dreaming. We are screwed.

[MulaMan]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Universal Health Care is a no brainier. Americans have no brains.

[doom&gloom]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

I'd suggest that you're half right. I agree that the negative reference to Obama shows a right wing bias, however your labeling it "right-wing fearmongering" shows a left wing bias.

Allow me to attempt to step back from either bias and suggest the following. Perhaps the risk is neither the "socialized takeover of a big chunk of our economy" (that right wingers decry) or the "FUBAR healthcare system that fails to provide universal health care despite its great cost" (that left wingers decry.) Rather the risk may be that our failed health care system will continue to fail.

Our health care system does a great job of generating immense profits for a few large corporations, but a lousy job of providing good health care for most Americans most of the time. The risk is that this will continue to be the case even if Congress passes some major health care legislation this year. The major drug, insurance and medical companies may surely have acquired sufficient control of Congress and the bureacracy that the only consequence of such a bill will be more profits for them, with no particular improvement in our health.

sorry cow, it's all simpler than what you say.

the whole deal in HC 'reform' is to shift the costs of a financially defunct
Medicare system back onto a pool of unwitting taxpayers who, amazingly
enough, already paid forthose costs a long time ago. By 'socializing'
the costs of HC over the general populace, the goobermint will be able
to avoid paying up for all those 'lockbox' IOU's. In addition, if state and
municpal workers are eventually rolled into the plan, all those retiree HC
plans that are unfunded disappear into the black hole of public taxation
once again. HC makes for a great 'rollup' of all the nations unfunded and
squandered medical ills in one fell swoop -- stick it to the taxpayers again!

[raja]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

Universal Health Care is a no brainier. Americans have no brains.

Beg to disagree . . . .

Current health care is a swindle by the pharmaceutical companies hawking drugs and treatments people don't need . . . enabled by greed-driven doctor-pushers too busy to do the best by their patients (not all, of course) and equally greed-driven government ass-kissers who pander to the rich to insure their reelection (again, not all).

But don't believe me . . . read the speech posted by Marcia Angell, Senior Lecturer on Social Medicine, Harvard Medical School; Former Editor-in-Chief, The New England Journal of Medicine, reprinted in c1ue's post here: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12464

The further outrage of Universal Health care is that people such as I, who can afford health insurance but choose to pay for it, will be forced to pay a "fine" each year for not playing along. It's not as if the way things are now I won't get a bill if there's an accident and I end up in the emergency room. But with the proposed health care legislation, I'll get a bill, and still have to pay the yearly non-compliance fine.

Purge the medical world of the pharma con-men and physician enablers, and get rid of the penalty for non-compliance, then I'll support Universal Health Care. IMO, as things stand now, the current supporters of Universal Health Care are the ones that are neurologically challenged ;) . . . . .

[fliped42]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

I liked the article up to this point:



It smacks of yet more right-wing fearmongering about the terrible fate that awaits Americans if we only allow Obama to try to move our healthcare system even slightly closer to the universal care systems provided by every other developed nation.

The US is bankrupt, and its healthcare system is FUBAR. Two separate problems. Leaving the FUBAR healthcare system in it's current state will not help our fiscal mess.

The problem is as opposed to solving the fiscal mess they are chosing to compund it by adding another entitlement program and expanding the national debt by another trillion more or less. The question is not if we need to fix healthcare we do. They question is how and when. The when is clearly not now as they should be focusing on other priorities like education, two wars, banking reform, sensible energy policy etc. They are Rahming this through at this time because they need to get it done before the mid terms not because it is better for the country, in my opinion, at this time it is insane to put in a new entitlement program/tax/manditory enrollement policy into effect when the dollar is tanking and unemployment at 10%-20% depending how you calculate it. This is pure politics and bad politics at that. When the dollar goes to 60, oil spikes, another war braks out or a major bank collapses after they pass this thing do you really think anyone will care that they have a new health insurance policy. I do not and I think the dems are making a big mistake. But they have painted themselve into a corner and must do something. So they will and wate all of the energy, time and brainpower used to get a marginal reform which would have been better spent on doing more critically important things for the country. Didn't the Dem's come up with the slogan "It's the economy stupid" ? They were right then but they have seemed to forgotten.

[Beavus]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

I generally agree with what you're saying but I would say it this way: In the US, it's the job of government to set priorities and build infrastructure on which those priorities will be achieved. It is the job of business to understand the priorities and the infrastructure and evaluate the best course of action for the company. The goal of private enterprise is to make as much money as possible within the construct laid out by the government.

As we know, government has all but abdicated their responsibility for so many years that business runs both ends of the game and it only works well for certain businesses. Most of our politicians are simply pimps for big business and anyone who thinks this is a liberal/conservative issue is naive.

We have three branches of govenrment (what I remember from High school) Judicial, Executive, and legislative. Each branch sets there own policy. Could we or have we ended up in a situation where the three separate policies of our three branches of government are inconflict?

Is the Federal Reserve considered a 4th branch of government that controls the other 3, unoficially?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Real Crisis Yet To Unfold

sorry cow, it's all simpler than what you say.

the whole deal in HC 'reform' is to shift the costs of a financially defunct
Medicare system back onto a pool of unwitting taxpayers

Well ... I don't know which is simpler, your description or mine. On a scale of simplicity, I'd rate our views about equal.

I was saying that the big drug and medical companies are taking our money, and you're saying that the federal government is taking our money.

I suspect we're both right. To put it in a slightly more complex form, perhaps the big drug and medical companies are manipulating the government to better fund medicare and other health care expenses, with more tax payer money, for the further profits of those companies and the re-election funding of politicians supporting them.

Look at it this way. If you were a big medical company depending on selling expensive drugs and procedures to people including seniors, would not the unfunded liabilities of Medicare scare you? A major source of your revenue is facing long term massive funding shortages. Ouch! It would be time to lean on your Congresscritters and get them to squeeze more money from the American taxpayer, to ensure your long term growth and profitability.

In short, I consider the U.S. federal government to be more a tool of the drug/medical corptocracy in this scam than they are the primary culprit.