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buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

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  • buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

    We recognize that the market for single family residences (SFRs) in the US is not one homogeneous market but a collection of local markets that move at varying rates up or down in response to local supply and demand.

    Notwithstanding, in aggregate, SFRs in the US have responded to the factor of extremely easy money. No down payment or minimal down payment loans, and cash-out refis, have created a huge updraft in real and nominal housing prices which probably peaked around summer of 2005.

    You could say that housing prices have responded to a giant inflationary expansion in the FIRE economy in recent years. Perhaps a parabolic increase in the size of the FIRE economy.

    Rents as a percentage of the total costs of ownership (TCO) of SFRs has I think been falling over the past 4 or 5 years.

    It seems that prices of goods and services, including rents, in the "real" economy haven't yet followed upwards due to the forces of globalization. (This has let corporate profits climb to near-record levels in terms of profits as a percentage of GDP and perhaps has sustained the US stock market rally.)

    Now, there are signs that goods and services prices, "real" economy prices including goods and labor, are starting to increase.

    Will this affect rents? If rents start to increase, and/or nominal housing prices continue falling, then at some point SFR prices may bottom out.

    Nominal wages in the US, which have been stagnant or falling (depending upon what you use as an inflation measure) but may start to bottom out and even go up.

    All this will bring inflation home to roost -- no longer confined to assets, but now to consumer prices and wages.

    However, unless wages increase nominally, I can't see how rents will increase much.

    That leaves SFR prices falling in nominal terms (and real terms even more sharply of course.)

    How long will this continue?

    When will it bottom out?

    In my experience in the late 19802 California real estate bubble, in some areas (including mine), housing prices doubled in two years. They then fell over the next four years to even less than they had been worth before the really big run-up.

    It may be helpful to view this in terms of years. In 1987-1990, houses doubled in some neighborhoods.

    In 1990-1995, houses fell to below 1987 prices.

    The more recent run-up in SFR prices in the US has in many areas been not quite so parabolic. It has taken longer to run up and it may take longer to run down. In my area we are back to 2004 prices and perhaps we will end up at 2000 prices when all is said and done. Or perhaps not.

    Will nominal wages increase so that rents can increase? Are there other supply-and-demand factors that determine rents?

    For owners or SFRs and apartments to have pricing power, I argue that it's nominal wages that count.

    When will it again become a favorable time to buy a house, assuming you don't want to buy an asset with leverage that is falling in value?

  • #2
    Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

    This is a question I think about quite often. I recently moved from Detroit to Atlanta and I decided to rent. I found a great deal in the city. It would cost $350,000+ to buy the place I'm in and I was able to rent it for $1325 per month through July 2009. I do have an out clause in the lease agreement that allows me to get out if I found a great deal and decided to purchase a place. I wanted to give plent of time for the real estate market to bottom out.

    At some point I'd like to buy, but at today's prices I can't justify it. If nothing else, I'll wait until we have a recession and be ready with cash on hand to buy. When the next recession hits, the rest of the country's real estate will look like Detroit's.

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    • #3
      Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

      grape, i think most estimates are somewhere between 2011-2017.

      In the rustbelt they are selling homes right now for less than cars (NW ohio and southern michigan). Of course there are no jobs there which is why you can buy a house there, but if you are looking at some place that's more livable probably not before 2010 at the earliest, in terms of a "bottom."

      Of course talk to any "realtor" and they will tell you NOW is the right time to buy, b/c RE always goes up, you'll be priced out forever, etc. etc.

      Also if peak oil hits really hard and gas goes to 10$/gal, many exurbs/suburbs will become abandoned or much more thinned out (assuming there is no wage inflation to match it). Ugh the thought of paying 100 bucks to fill my fuel-efficient japanese car is quite disgusting, but seems like an all-too-real possibility.

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      • #4
        Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

        [QUOTE=DemonD]grape, i think most estimates are somewhere between 2011-2017.

        In the rustbelt they are selling homes right now for less than cars (NW ohio and southern michigan). Of course there are no jobs there which is why you can buy a house there, but if you are looking at some place that's more livable probably not before 2010 at the earliest, in terms of a "bottom."

        QUOTE]

        That house less than car thing is not accurate. They are talking about slums in Detroit, the average house in the Suburbs is still around $200,000.

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        • #5
          Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

          fight, there have been homes sold in toledo, OH for 20k. Less than a car. Toledo isn't exactly beverly hills, but it's not east st. louis either.

          Also the 2010-11 estimate for a bottoming coincides with alt-a resets peaking.

          best of luck.

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          • #6
            Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

            Originally posted by DemonD
            fight, there have been homes sold in toledo, OH for 20k. Less than a car. Toledo isn't exactly beverly hills, but it's not east st. louis either.

            Also the 2010-11 estimate for a bottoming coincides with alt-a resets peaking.

            best of luck.
            I agree with your estimate of 2010-11. I think for the bottom to be in we will need to see high interest rates as well. If interest rates go back to 18% like they did in the early 1980's I think that would do it. I just don't see why the fed would increase rates and put further pressure on the housing market.

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            • #7
              Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

              Originally posted by fightthepower
              I agree with your estimate of 2010-11. I think for the bottom to be in we will need to see high interest rates as well. If interest rates go back to 18% like they did in the early 1980's I think that would do it. I just don't see why the fed would increase rates and put further pressure on the housing market.
              high rates are a couple of steps down the road. first we need a weakened economy, leading to lowered rates, leading to a dollar drop and inflation surge. then a couple of halfhearted attempts to raise rates to control the inflation, but the fed chickens out. eventually this gets bad enough that the political system finally bites the bullet and puts a neo-volcker in at the fed. then we get the high rates. this will not be for a while. 2010 sounds too early to me.

              if we are now parallel to 1972-3, we've got a way to go.

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              • #8
                Re: buying a house in the US: When will it be "the right time"

                Hi,

                If you're handy with a calculator then this tool won't be of much help. However, it's super in the way you can interactively examine a range of scenarios relating directly to the rent vs. buy side of the question.

                Good stuff!


                http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/bu...in&oref=slogin

                Cory

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