The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Your post simply shows that you do not understand how donations are recorded and tracked.

The chart has nothing to do with special interest groups at all.

There is a lot about many things I do not know or do not understand; today I know more about donations and how the second source brought up above http://www.opensecrets.org works, which as I mentioned and someone else also, seems to be a better site, than is the original table I put up from maplight.org.


If tracking of donations "has nothing to do with special interests groups at all" then why do any organizations exert the effort to collect the data and to make it available?

Chris Dobb, hopefully soon to be the former Senator from CT, is presently Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Cmte. Chairman. From http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...0000581&type=I are the following data.



Assuming the data above are close to correct, why would these firms and industries (actually members of both) go to the trouble to donate to candidates if it had nothing to do with how the candidate might favor the firms or industries and thus ultimately the employees who made the donations?

From a rough estimate approximately 10% of the donations in the second table came from PAC's.

So is everyone to deduce that the members of congress are not influenced by company and industry donations? I think they definitely are influenced.

Is the notion that one thing wrong with American politics is legislatve capture by oligarchal and special interests wrong? I think the notion is not wrong.

I believe the only answer is publicly funded elections.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Quite the opposite. I just know that leaving population control to a small group of elites is a recipe for disaster.

So if you and I and even Dr. Paul and anyone else of his hands-of-the- government off individual freedoms were we to all agree that unchecked human population growth is a "recipe for disaster" for the planet, then we should agree government should be totally out of the decision making process regarding all forms of birth control excepting late term abortion in most instances. Those people producing the embryos best knowing what they know about their own capabilities for parenting and support of potential new humans should be the ones who decide to keep or destroy an embryo.

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

So if you and I and even Dr. Paul and anyone else of his hands-of-the- government off individual freedoms were we to all agree that unchecked human population growth is a "recipe for disaster" for the planet, then we should agree government should be totally out of the decision making process regarding all forms of birth control excepting late term abortion in most instances. Those people producing the embryos best knowing what they know about their own capabilities for parenting and support of potential new humans should be the ones who decide to keep or destroy an embryo.

Given that determining when a biomass with human DNA is actually bestowed natural human rights is a subjective call (even in the realm of science), and that "terminating" said biomass once it has rights constitutes murder, it's impossible not to intervene on some level. Ron is just trying to decentralize it as much as possible.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Given that determining when a biomass with human DNA is actually bestowed natural human rights is a subjective call (even in the realm of science), and that "terminating" said biomass once it has rights constitutes murder, it's impossible not to intervene on some level. Ron is just trying to decentralize it as much as possible.

A biomass is not a human. That is not hard at all, nor is it subjective.

I think Dr, Paul is capitalize on the potential mass of voters who for whatever their reasons consider a sperm cell hitting an egg as an act of some god or God if you prefer.

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

A biomass is not a human. That is not hard at all, nor is it subjective.

I think Dr, Paul is capitalize on the potential mass of voters who for whatever their reasons consider a sperm cell hitting an egg as an act of some god or God if you prefer.

You and I are biomasses. Are you saying we're not human? You need to realize you're making a subjective call as well. You really, really want others to believe as you do but many don't.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

You and I are biomasses. Are you saying we're not human? You need to realize you're making a subjective call as well. You really, really want others to believe as you do but many don't.

A morulus in a woman is not a human being, my error for not being more critical in having chosen to use your term.

I really do not give a rat's ass whether anyone else believes as I may. People can either look at what appear to be facts and ignore them, or they can, and in my opinion should, consider the facts and ask questions and try to come up with serious answers.

Nobody can accurately predict the future. Here is a good example of qualifying population projections: http://www.un.org/esa/population/pub...p2300final.pdf

Projections recently issued by the United Nations
suggest that world population by 2050 could
reach 8.9 billion, but in alternative scenarios could
be as high as 10.6 billion or as low as 7.4 billion.
What will population trends be like beyond 2050?
No one really knows. Any demographic projections,
if they go 100, 200, or 300 years into the
future, are little more than guesses. Societies
change considerably over hundreds of years—as
one can readily see if one looks back at where the
world was in 1900, or 1800, or 1700. Demographic
behaviour over such long time spans, like
behaviour in many spheres of life, is largely unpredictable.

That is from a 2004 UN report of 250+ pages which I guarantee you I have not and will not read.

If one thinks planet Earth has infinite resources, and that humans will learn in the face of yet unending progress with technology to use less of them, then perhaps there is no problem with on-going maintenance of 7,8,9 or 10 billion humans. Personally I think at some point there is a limit, if not already reached, considering the quality of life and life expectancies that exist today in some quarters of the planet.

What I think about the problem will change nothing for those of you who expect the possibities of seeing grandchildren or even great-grandchildren. It seems the American way today is to worry about today and not consider anything other that lip-service to the future inhabitants of the country and world. If there are exceptions to that method of US action, take a moment and refresh my thinking.

Above I referenced a piece by John Mauldin written this past weekend. It struck me as rather scary with regard to there being more poeple than there are productive jobs. I lack imagination, but with more and more people I do not see the problem facing us in just the coming few years as ultimately disappearing as further time comes upon us. I've forgotten where I saw it this weekend, but another "pundit" suggested if just the 6 million small businesses, defined as trhose employing 100 or less people, each were to hire just one person, it would take 6M off the unemployment roles. True, but why employ even one person if the employer does not have a need of productive work from that person?

Odds are no one here is going to make worthwhile progress with real actions that might lead to a better future for the planet and those who are inhabiting it. One job of elected officials, or even those not elected in China, should be to give some serious thought to future realities and should be to act now as to enable the best outcomes vs. being forced into reactionary decisions and policies as is so dominant in the present day life of us all. But that is hard to do, and one thing so many Americans seem not to want to do today are those things that are hard, difficult, challenging. Top of the list are politicians; if there is a hell, then damn them to it.

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

A morulus in a woman is not a human being

I'm keeping the focus here. You do understand that this is still a subjective belief, right?

[mikedev10]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

holy crap, those words came out of her mouth? my first thought is, who wrote that for her?

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

I'm keeping the focus here. You do understand that this is still a subjective belief, right?

If your choice of evasion is "keeping the focus," then so be it.

Look up the words in whatever you think is a reputable scientific source (probaby not a Kansas high school text on creationist's biololgy):
gametes, zygote, blastomeres, morula, embryo, and fetus. If some basic understanding of those terms as applied to human reproduction is "subjective" I guess I am that.

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

If your choice of evasion is "keeping the focus," then so be it.

Look up the words in whatever you think is a reputable scientific source (probaby not a Kansas high school text on creationist's biololgy):
gametes, zygote, blastomeres, morula, embryo, and fetus. If some basic understanding of those terms as applied to human reproduction is "subjective" I guess I am that.

I know exactly what those are, as well as infant, toddler, child and adult. Break it down for me then. What scientific, empirical fact determines us to be human and, as a result, bestowed with the natural right to life?

[rjwjr]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

This is a corrupt politician's wet dream. A thread about the most corrupt politicians has been hijacked by an emotionally heated debate about abortion. Have we iTuliper's been infiltrated by the Feds?

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

This is a corrupt politician's wet dream. A thread about the most corrupt politicians has been hijacked by an emotionally heated debate about abortion. Have we iTuliper's been infiltrated by the Feds?

Right, because iTulip is here to save the world. I'm sure Bernanke is letting out an evil laugh right now as I write this. :rolleyes:

[Ghent12]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

holy crap, those words came out of her mouth? my first thought is, who wrote that for her?

She can learn, it seems.

[Ghent12]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

There is a lot about many things I do not know or do not understand; today I know more about donations and how the second source brought up above http://www.opensecrets.org works, which as I mentioned and someone else also, seems to be a better site, than is the original table I put up from maplight.org.


If tracking of donations "has nothing to do with special interests groups at all" then why do any organizations exert the effort to collect the data and to make it available?

Chris Dobb, hopefully soon to be the former Senator from CT, is presently Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Cmte. Chairman. From http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...0000581&type=I are the following data.



Assuming the data above are close to correct, why would these firms and industries (actually members of both) go to the trouble to donate to candidates if it had nothing to do with how the candidate might favor the firms or industries and thus ultimately the employees who made the donations?

From a rough estimate approximately 10% of the donations in the second table came from PAC's.

So is everyone to deduce that the members of congress are not influenced by company and industry donations? I think they definitely are influenced.

Is the notion that one thing wrong with American politics is legislatve capture by oligarchal and special interests wrong? I think the notion is not wrong.

I believe the only answer is publicly funded elections.

Indeed, Dodd is a notoriously corrupt member of Congress. Same with Schumer of New York, and actually a lot of New England Congressmen/women...

Then again, as you pointed out in your opening post, corruption knows virtually no bounds.

[mikedev10]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

She can learn, it seems.

or read, at least