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  • Egypt really in a mess this time

    Odoriferous responses to the swine flu aren't restricted to the 'first' world.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/wo...ef=todayspaper

    September 20, 2009

    Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs

    By MICHAEL SLACKMAN

    CAIRO — It is unlikely anyone has ever come to this city and commented on how clean the streets are. But this litter-strewn metropolis is now wrestling with a garbage problem so severe it has managed to incite its weary residents and command the attention of the president.

    “The problem is clear in the streets,” said Haitham Kamal, a spokesman for the Ministry of State for Environmental Affairs. “There is a strict and intensive effort now from the state to address this issue.”

    But the crisis should not have come as a surprise.

    When the government killed all the pigs in Egypt this spring — in what public health experts said was a misguided attempt to combat swine flu — it was warned the city would be overwhelmed with trash.

    The pigs used to eat tons of organic waste. Now the pigs are gone and the rotting food piles up on the streets of middle-class neighborhoods like Heliopolis and in the poor streets of communities like Imbaba.

    Ramadan Hediya, 35, who makes deliveries for a supermarket, lives in Madinat el Salam, a low-income community on the outskirts of Cairo.
    “The whole area is trash,” Mr. Hediya said. “All the pathways are full of trash. When you open up your window to breathe, you find garbage heaps on the ground.”

    What started out as an impulsive response to the swine flu threat has turned into a social, environmental and political problem for the Arab world’s most populous nation.

    It has exposed the failings of a government where the power is concentrated at the top, where decisions are often carried out with little consideration for their consequences and where follow-up is often nonexistent, according to social commentators and government officials.

    “The main problem in Egypt is follow-up,” said Sabir Abdel Aziz Galal, chief of the infectious disease department at the Ministry of Agriculture. “A decision is taken, there is follow-up for a period of time, but after that, they get busy with something else and forget about it. This is the case with everything.”

    Speaking broadly, there are two systems for receiving services in Egypt: The government system and the do-it-yourself system. Instead of following the channels of bureaucracy, most people rely on an informal system of personal contacts and bribes to get a building permit, pass an inspection, get a driver’s license — or make a living.

    “The straight and narrow path is just too bureaucratic and burdensome for the rich person, and for the poor, the formal system does not provide him with survival, it does not give him safety, security or meet his needs,” said Laila Iskandar Kamel, chairwoman of a community development organization in Cairo.

    Cairo’s garbage collection belonged to the informal sector. The government hired multinational companies to collect the trash, and the companies decided to place bins around the city.

    But they failed to understand the ethos of the community. People do not take their garbage out. They are accustomed to seeing someone collecting it from the door.

    For more than half a century, those collectors were the zabaleen, a community of Egyptian Christians who live on the cliffs on the eastern edge of the city. They collected the trash, sold the recyclables and fed the organic waste to their pigs — which they then slaughtered and ate.
    Killing all the pigs, all at once, “was the stupidest thing they ever did,” Ms. Kamel said, adding, “This is just one more example of poorly informed decision makers.”

    When the swine flu fear first emerged, long before even one case was reported in Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak ordered that all the pigs be killed in order to prevent the spread of the disease.

    When health officials worldwide said that the virus was not being passed by pigs, the Egyptian government said that the cull was no longer about the flu, but was about cleaning up the zabaleen’s crowded, filthy, neighborhood.

    That was in May.

    Today the streets of the zabaleen community are as packed with stinking trash and as clouded with flies as ever before. But the zabaleen have done exactly what they said they would do: they stopped taking care of most of the organic waste.

    Instead they dump it wherever they can or, at best, pile it beside trash bins scattered around the city by the international companies that have struggled in vain to keep up with the trash.

    “They killed the pigs, let them clean the city,” said Moussa Rateb, a former garbage collector and pig owner who lives in the community of the zabaleen. “Everything used to go to the pigs, now there are no pigs, so it goes to the administration.”

    The recent trash problem was compounded when employees of one of the multinational companies — men and women in green uniforms with crude brooms dispatched around the city — stopped working in a dispute with the city.

    The government says that the dispute has been resolved, but nothing has been done to repair the damage to the informal system that once had the zabaleen take Cairo’s trash home.

    The garbage is only the latest example of the state’s struggling to meet the needs of its citizens, needs as basic as providing water, housing, health care and education.

    The government announced last week that schools would not be opened until the first week of October to give the government time to prepare for a potential swine flu outbreak, a decision that could have been made anytime over the past three months, while schools were closed for summer break, critics said.

    Officials in the Ministry of Health and other government ministries said they had not made this decision — and that they had counseled against pre-emptive school closings.

    It appears to have been ordered by the presidency and carried out by the governors, who also ordered that all private schools, already in class, be shut down as well.

    “We did not propose or call for postponing schools, so the reason is not with us,” said an official in the Ministry of Health who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak to the news media.

    The heads of three large governorates, or states, in Egypt announced Wednesday that their strategy for keeping schoolchildren safe was to take classes, which on average are crowded with more than 60 students, and split them in half and have children attend school only three days a week, another decision that was criticized. There have been more than 800 confirmed cases of H1N1 in Egypt, and two flu-related deaths.

    “The state is troubled; as a result the system of decision making is disintegrating,” said Galal Amin, an economist, writer and social critic. “They are ill-considered decisions taken in a bit of a hurry, either because you’re trying to please the president or because you are a weak government that is anxious to please somebody.”

    Cairo’s streets have always been busy with children and littered with trash.
    Now, with the pigs gone, and the schools closed, they are even more so.

    “The Egyptians are really in a mess,” Mr. Amin said.

  • #2
    Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

    The Law of Unintended Consequences is a bitch.
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

      Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
      The Law of Unintended Consequences is a bitch.
      The intended consequence was to deprive the beseiged Coptic Christian community in Egypt from a food source that the Muslim majority regard as objectionable. In that the Egyptian government can take satisfaction in a job well done...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        The intended consequence was to deprive the beseiged Coptic Christian community in Egypt from a food source that the Muslim majority regard as objectionable. In that the Egyptian government can take satisfaction in a job well done...
        You mean to say that the state is willing and able to use a social black swan event to advance their hidden agenda? Glad we don't have that in the 'West'.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

          I will spend 3 weeks in Egypt soon, last week in October thru mid-November. Archaeological tour. Includes several days in Cairo.

          Will report my findings back to iTulip...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

            The egyptian state has/is/will continue to be a mess; its a state set up for the benefit of a very select few, a true straight in your face oligarchy if ive ever seen one.... Its been that way for 50 years.... Short sighted and idiotic SOB's, nothing the govt does ever makes any sense... Every time i go there i am amazed that it still functions....

            On a side note, i was there trying to finish some paper work with the govt and i noticed that the people working in govt offices are humanized automatons ... in the sense that its not much different than running an old card punch computer, each employee is trained and expects a certain input (a specific set of documents) and if you stray in any way from his expected input you get a "does not compute" answer... Amazingly, it works better than with the US... I tried to get away without providing info (which works in the US) and it "did not compute" They have a very thorough data collection and tracking of citizens/security apparatus, more so than any place i have EVER seen...

            I did the math in my head that there were 4 desks in a govt office, i noticed that i literally had to go to each window, every step of the process, when i logically should have been able to do it all at once.... I then thought to myself, why couldnt a computer do the job of all these folks... It could, but then there would be revolt! 80% of govt employees could be dismissed and replaced by computers to do exactly the same job...


            Every day, People go about their daily lives and in every attempt try and avoid the government. If you avoid govt, you can usually do fine, you will save yourself alot of heartache and high blood pressure.

            Yet, i swear the population and demeanor of folks never ceases to amaze me... If us Americans were ever put in that position i think we'd be shooting each other....
            Last edited by karim0028; September 20, 2009, 08:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

              Originally posted by World Traveler View Post
              I will spend 3 weeks in Egypt soon, last week in October thru mid-November. Archaeological tour. Includes several days in Cairo.

              Will report my findings back to iTulip...
              I've spent a lot of time in Egypt, mostly in Cairo which despite all the problems remains one of my favourite cities to visit. The place is fascinating. If you have time try to get to the Khan el-Khalili, the market in the Old City. Don't hang around the outside perimeter like the tourists, most of whom seem intimidated or afraid to enter the dark, narrow alleys that lead to the interior. One of my lasting memories is spending an entire morning drinking tea and haggling over the price of a completely black-tarnished metal coffee-pot that I found under stacks of salvaged hardware in a dark, low-ceiling [I could not fully stand up] metal junk shop in the middle of the Khan...not exactly your typical tourist destination. The proprietor kept trying to polish it using an equally black, filthy scrap of towel in an effort to show me how attractive [more valuable ] it really was, but patience [and a good bladder] finally paid off. I bought the pot made from silver panels that had been hand hammered over wooden forms carved with gorgeous Arabic calligraphy for a very few US$. A bit of silver polish had it gleaming and it remains one of my favourite artifacts of my time abroad, in large part because of the memory of that morning.

              I hope you enjoy Egypt...chaotic, disorganized, necessarily spontaneous [forget about schedules] and full of life.

              Originally posted by karim0028 View Post
              The egyptian state has/is/will continue to be a mess; its a state set up for the benefit of a very select few, a true straight in your face oligarchy if ive ever seen one.... Its been that way for 50 years.... Short sighted and idiotic SOB's, nothing the govt does ever makes any sense... Every time i go there i am amazed that it still functions....

              On a side note, i was there trying to finish some paper work with the govt and i noticed that the people working in govt offices are humanized automatons ... in the sense that its not much different than running an old card punch computer, each employee is trained and expects a certain input (a specific set of documents) and if you stray in any way from his expected input you get a "does not compute" answer... Amazingly, it works better than with the US... I tried to get away without providing info (which works in the US) and it "did not compute" They have a very thorough data collection and tracking of citizens/security apparatus, more so than any place i have EVER seen...

              I did the math in my head that there were 4 desks in a govt office, i noticed that i literally had to go to each window, every step of the process, when i logically should have been able to do it all at once.... I then thought to myself, why couldnt a computer do the job of all these folks... It could, but then there would be revolt! 80% of govt employees could be dismissed and replaced by computers to do exactly the same job...


              Every day, People go about their daily lives and in every attempt try and avoid the government. If you avoid govt, you can usually do fine, you will save yourself alot of heartache and high blood pressure.

              Yet, i swear the population and demeanor of folks never ceases to amaze me... If us Americans were ever put in that position i think we'd be shooting each other....
              A link to another thread from early 2008 with an exchange between myself and EJ about Egypt and some similarities to the USA.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

                Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                I've spent a lot of time in Egypt, mostly in Cairo which despite all the problems remains one of my favourite cities to visit. The place is fascinating. If you have time try to get to the Khan el-Khalili, the market in the Old City. Don't hang around the outside perimeter like the tourists, most of whom seem intimidated or afraid to enter the dark, narrow alleys that lead to the interior. One of my lasting memories is spending an entire morning drinking tea and haggling over the price of a completely black-tarnished metal coffee-pot that I found under stacks of salvaged hardware in a dark, low-ceiling [I could not fully stand up] metal junk shop in the middle of the Khan...not exactly your typical tourist destination. The proprietor kept trying to polish it using an equally black, filthy scrap of towel in an effort to show me how attractive [more valuable ] it really was, but patience [and a good bladder] finally paid off. I bought the pot made from silver panels that had been hand hammered over wooden forms carved with gorgeous Arabic calligraphy for a very few US$. A bit of silver polish had it gleaming and it remains one of my favourite artifacts of my time abroad, in large part because of the memory of that morning.

                I hope you enjoy Egypt...chaotic, disorganized, necessarily spontaneous [forget about schedules] and full of life.



                A link to another thread from early 2008 with an exchange between myself and EJ about Egypt and some similarities to the USA.
                Yup, as to your input above, Egypt as a civilization/culture is a sight to behold The people survive despite the govt ;)

                If you are military (or know anyone in military) in Egypt you can get almost anything done, military class is alive and well there ....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

                  Thanks for the feedback, Grg55.

                  This tour includes plenty of free time and also several days in 4 of the Western Oases in the Sahara Desert.

                  Off the beaten track is definitely more fun, I'm hoping to have similar experiences in Egypt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Egypt really in a mess this time

                    Originally posted by World Traveler View Post
                    Thanks for the feedback, Grg55.

                    This tour includes plenty of free time and also several days in 4 of the Western Oases in the Sahara Desert.

                    Off the beaten track is definitely more fun, I'm hoping to have similar experiences in Egypt.
                    If you have some time and can travel down south, go check out luxor/valley of the kings and the red sea resorts... Sharm el Sheikh or some other resorts on the red sea, great scuba diving and the water is beautiful....

                    Comment

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