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  • Poor People Pay Till They Can't

    As Michael Hudson pointed out what a banker friend told him. "The poor stand by their debts! It's fantastic!" (I paraphrase)

    latimes.com

    NATION'S HOUSING

    Homeowners who 'strategically default' on loans a growing problem

    A study shows that people who abruptly and intentionally abandon their mortgages often have high credit scores, in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers.

    Who is more likely to walk away from a house and a mortgage -- a person with super-prime credit scores or someone with lower scores?

    Research using a massive sample of 24 million individual credit files has found that homeowners with high scores when they apply for a loan are 50% more likely to "strategically default" -- abruptly and intentionally pull the plug and abandon the mortgage -- compared with lower-scoring borrowers.

    National credit bureau Experian teamed with consulting company Oliver Wyman to identify the characteristics and debt management behavior of the growing numbers of homeowners who bail out of their mortgages with none of the expected warning signs, such as nonpayments on other debts.

    With foreclosures, delinquencies and loan losses at record levels, strategic defaults and walkaways are among the hottest subjects in residential real estate finance. Unlike in earlier academic studies, Experian and Wyman could tap into credit files over extended periods to identify patterns associated with strategic defaults.

    Among researchers' findings are these eye-openers:

    * The number of strategic defaults is far beyond most industry estimates -- 588,000 nationwide during 2008, more than double the total in 2007. They represented 18% of all serious delinquencies that extended for more than 60 days in last year's fourth quarter.

    * Strategic defaulters often go straight from perfect payment histories to no mortgage payments at all. This is in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers, who try to keep paying on their mortgage even after they've fallen behind on other accounts.

    * Strategic defaults are heavily concentrated in negative-equity markets where home values zoomed during the boom and have cratered since 2006. In California last year, the number of strategic defaults was 68 times higher than it was in 2005. In Florida it was 46 times higher. In most other parts of the country, defaults were about nine times higher in 2008 than in 2005.

    * Two-thirds of strategic defaulters have only one mortgage -- the one they're walking away from on their primary homes. Individuals who have mortgages on multiple houses also have a higher likelihood of strategic default, but researchers believe that many of these walkaways are from investment properties or second homes.

    * Homeowners with large mortgage balances generally are more likely to pull the plug than those with lower balances. Similarly, people with credit ratings in the two highest categories measured by VantageScore -- a joint scoring venture created by Experian and the two other national credit bureaus, Equifax and TransUnion -- are far more likely to default strategically than people in lower score categories.

    * People who default strategically and lose their houses appear to understand the consequences of what they're doing. Piyush Tantia, an Oliver Wyman partner and a principal researcher on the study, said strategic defaulters "are clearly sophisticated," based on the patterns of selective payments observable in their credit files. For example, they tend not to default on home equity lines of credit until after they bail out on their main mortgages, sometimes to draw down more cash on the equity line.

    Strategic defaulters may know that their credit scores will be severely depressed by their mortgage abandonment, Tantia said, but they appear to look at it as a business decision: "Well, I'm $200,000 in the hole on my house, and yes, I'll damage my credit," he said of defaulters. But they see it as the most practical solution under the circumstances.

    The Experian-Wyman study does not try to explore the ethical or legal aspects of mortgage walkaways. But it does suggest that lenders and loan servicers take steps to screen and identify strategic defaulters in advance and possibly avoid offering them loan modifications, since they'll probably just re-default on them anyway.

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/re...,2560658.story

  • #2
    Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

    If this was on Fark.com, it would be under the OBVIOUS header. I love that they had to commission a study for this. Smart people play by bankster and oligarch rules and get burned, they walk away while they still can without getting ripped off even further. Shocking.

    -Pangea

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

      As ive stated multiple times, i know several people with masters degrees and higher education with 80K+ incomes (200K+ dual income) defaulting on underwater mortgages.... Its essentially a no brainer, if you default you can renegotiate your loan balance if you can offer a cash settlement, if its a recourse loan...

      If its non recourse (like in AZ), you can buy the house next door for 1/2 price of your house and then tell the bank to sit on it and spin...

      Poor people usually are in that position for multiple reasons but, its usually due to bad decision making and analysis skills....

      Worrying about a credit score when your 200K+ underwater is just plain stupid... You aint gonna get any more credit, so conserve cash, cut your losses, enhance your life, move on and live to fight another day.....

      Otherwise whats the end result? Run through the scenario and take it to its logical conclusion.... You pay your last red cent to the bank in interest payments, you fall behind the next month and the process starts all over, you're deeper in debt than when you started and after draining you dry the bank still takes the house..... Now, you end up homeless bc you didnt save any cash and instead you just tried to keep up with interest payments.....

      Had you gone the other route, you would have said fuck interest payments "im gonna save that cash", go through with the foreclosure... You would have had 9 months to a year of cash savings and you could easily rent a better house for half the cost....
      Last edited by karim0028; September 19, 2009, 06:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

        Originally posted by don View Post
        As Michael Hudson pointed out what a banker friend told him. "The poor stand by their debts! It's fantastic!" (I paraphrase)

        latimes.com

        NATION'S HOUSING

        Homeowners who 'strategically default' on loans a growing problem

        A study shows that people who abruptly and intentionally abandon their mortgages often have high credit scores, in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers.

        Who is more likely to walk away from a house and a mortgage -- a person with super-prime credit scores or someone with lower scores?

        Research using a massive sample of 24 million individual credit files has found that homeowners with high scores when they apply for a loan are 50% more likely to "strategically default" -- abruptly and intentionally pull the plug and abandon the mortgage -- compared with lower-scoring borrowers.

        National credit bureau Experian teamed with consulting company Oliver Wyman to identify the characteristics and debt management behavior of the growing numbers of homeowners who bail out of their mortgages with none of the expected warning signs, such as nonpayments on other debts.

        With foreclosures, delinquencies and loan losses at record levels, strategic defaults and walkaways are among the hottest subjects in residential real estate finance. Unlike in earlier academic studies, Experian and Wyman could tap into credit files over extended periods to identify patterns associated with strategic defaults.

        Among researchers' findings are these eye-openers:

        * The number of strategic defaults is far beyond most industry estimates -- 588,000 nationwide during 2008, more than double the total in 2007. They represented 18% of all serious delinquencies that extended for more than 60 days in last year's fourth quarter.

        * Strategic defaulters often go straight from perfect payment histories to no mortgage payments at all. This is in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers, who try to keep paying on their mortgage even after they've fallen behind on other accounts.

        * Strategic defaults are heavily concentrated in negative-equity markets where home values zoomed during the boom and have cratered since 2006. In California last year, the number of strategic defaults was 68 times higher than it was in 2005. In Florida it was 46 times higher. In most other parts of the country, defaults were about nine times higher in 2008 than in 2005.

        * Two-thirds of strategic defaulters have only one mortgage -- the one they're walking away from on their primary homes. Individuals who have mortgages on multiple houses also have a higher likelihood of strategic default, but researchers believe that many of these walkaways are from investment properties or second homes.

        * Homeowners with large mortgage balances generally are more likely to pull the plug than those with lower balances. Similarly, people with credit ratings in the two highest categories measured by VantageScore -- a joint scoring venture created by Experian and the two other national credit bureaus, Equifax and TransUnion -- are far more likely to default strategically than people in lower score categories.

        * People who default strategically and lose their houses appear to understand the consequences of what they're doing. Piyush Tantia, an Oliver Wyman partner and a principal researcher on the study, said strategic defaulters "are clearly sophisticated," based on the patterns of selective payments observable in their credit files. For example, they tend not to default on home equity lines of credit until after they bail out on their main mortgages, sometimes to draw down more cash on the equity line.

        Strategic defaulters may know that their credit scores will be severely depressed by their mortgage abandonment, Tantia said, but they appear to look at it as a business decision: "Well, I'm $200,000 in the hole on my house, and yes, I'll damage my credit," he said of defaulters. But they see it as the most practical solution under the circumstances.

        The Experian-Wyman study does not try to explore the ethical or legal aspects of mortgage walkaways. But it does suggest that lenders and loan servicers take steps to screen and identify strategic defaulters in advance and possibly avoid offering them loan modifications, since they'll probably just re-default on them anyway.

        http://www.latimes.com/classified/re...,2560658.story
        I read this and think that on the one hand, these strategic defaulters are typical, self-absorbed, narcissistic, materialistic boomers who lack a sense of honor. On the other hand, they are giving the FIRE elites a dose of their own medicine and acting purely in their financial self-interest without regard what is right, just as they (the oligarchs) would.
        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

          Originally posted by don View Post
          ...it does suggest that lenders and loan servicers take steps to screen and identify strategic defaulters in advance and possibly avoid offering them loan modifications...
          Um, isn't this a horse out of the barn situation? Let's create a set of rules to manage the past.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

            Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
            I read this and think that on the one hand, these strategic defaulters are typical, self-absorbed, narcissistic, materialistic boomers who lack a sense of honor. On the other hand, they are giving the FIRE elites a dose of their own medicine and acting purely in their financial self-interest without regard what is right, just as they (the oligarchs) would.
            Isn't it part of the contract . . . .
            Mortgage-holders have the "right" to choose default, and the penalty for defaulting is that they lose whatever equity they have in the house?

            A few years ago, the banksters loved it if someone defaulted and the banksters got the free money plus the house back. Now things are different. Seems that the banksters made a big boo boo, but not really, since the gov't is bailing them out . . .
            Oooops, voters made a big boo boo by voting in government FIRE enablers . . . so WE are the losers :eek:
            raja
            Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Poor People Pay Till They Can't

              Originally posted by raja View Post
              Isn't it part of the contract . . . .
              Exactly, it's a business contract. In most cases a mortgage in the US is a non-recourse loan. If you walk away you lose your down payment, you lose your improvements, you lose the principal you've paid down and you lose a fair portion of your ability to borrow. Intelligent people can understand this rather easily. It's not an issue of ethics.

              Comment

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