Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

[rjwjr]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Here is my simple-minded take on the situation...

1] With few exceptions, everyone is trying to improve their financial position in life and maybe even "get rich".

2] As a general rule, everyone in the US has a relatively equal oppotunity to improve their financial position in life.

If you agree with the two opinions/observations above then your degree of financial success primarily comes down to your ability to improve your worth in the marketplace, obtain ownership in a successful business, and/or make sound financial decisions. In effect, it comes down to ability.

Sure there are some people that get more than their natural ability because they cheat the system. Sure there are some people that get a head start based on family money or connections. Sure there are some people that win the lottery. For the vast majority of us, however, we get what we deserve thru ability and decision making.

I agree that we should do all that we can to find and punish the cheaters in the system, however, even if we eliminated all of the cheaters, the money would still flow to the individuals with the greatest ability and best decision making. That's not a vast right-wing conspiracy, that's just obvious. And since it's easier to make money (if you are capable, disciplined, and make good decisions) once you have money, the income disparity will naturally increase over time.

Complaining about the unfairness of income distribution is about as productive as banging your head against the wall, although I guess that having someone to blame makes some people feel better about themselves. My advice for these people would be threefold...

1] Find-out how to improve your worth to an employer and how to make better financial decisions. This will likely mean sacrifice, discipline, and quite a bit of effort so it may not be for everyone. It also takes a minimum level of intelligence so, sadly, some people may not ever have this option.

2] Quit comparing yourself against the Top 1% or any other group that makes you feel bad about yourself and your place in life. Trying to "keep up with the Joneses" is a sure-fire way to financial ruin, or at least a financial treadmill. Instead, set your own financial goals, improve your own situation bit-by-bit, and find hapiness in your own personal financial achievements.

3] Quit "playing the game" altogether. Downsize your life to the point that your financial needs are few and look for hapiness in other non-financial areas; art, reading, education, health, volunteering.

Do you really think that taking money from people that you have deemed don't deserve it and redistributing it to yourself will make you happy? I think not. Stop banging your head against the wall and start setting some achievable improvement goals within your own grasp. That has a greater chance of bringing you true happiness.

By the way, have you ever spent any time with individuals in the bottom 20% or so of the socio-economic ladder? In general, there is a reason they are where they are. It's not like giving them money through redistribution is going to make them self-sustaining economic powerhouses that allow them to now rocket up the socio-economic ladder. Eventually, it's that money, not the people, that will filter its way upwards through the socio-economic hierarchy. There is nothing we can do about it other than forced redistribution, which I believe to be a poor solution.

[rjwjr]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIMi7fBA6e4

Huey Long, LOL. In spite of the fact that he was one of the most crooked politicians in US history, his "share the wealth" ideals should have died with communism. Feel free to move to Cuba or the utopia that is modern day Venezuela if you think these "share the wealth"/"screw the productive" ideals are for you. I hope you posted this audio as a joke.

How are we ever going to make any progress as a society if these failed ideals/beliefs/systems won't die? Been there, done that, didn't work, let's move on.

[gnk]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Huey Long, LOL. In spite of the fact that he was one of the most crooked politicians in US history, his "share the wealth" ideals should have died with communism. Feel free to move to Cuba or the utopia that is modern day Venezuela if you think these "share the wealth"/"screw the productive" ideals are for you. I hope you posted this audio as a joke.

How are we ever going to make any progress as a society if these failed ideals/beliefs/systems won't die? Been there, done that, didn't work, let's move on.

Whenever some policy of "redistribution" is brought up - why is it always followed by the average american knee-jerk response: "go live in Cuba/Venezuela?"

Why can't you tell people to "go live in Sweden/Canada?" Why the extreme jump right to Cuba and not, say, Germany?

In a few more years, I think many will be heading to Canada or Europe. I will be moving to Europe within a year. Though if Sweden had Cuba's weather - I'd be there RIGHT NOW!

[WDCRob]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

it's the FIRE economy. An unprecedented expansion of fiat money starting in 1981 or so and ending in 2007. Anyone benefiting from it made out like a bandit. Those not in it ended off flat or worse off financially.

And did the FIRE economy crawl forward out of the sea, the result of random evolutionary forces? Or was it driven by a particular ideology or set of policy initiatives?

[don]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Whenever some policy of "redistribution" is brought up - why is it always followed by the average american knee-jerk response: "go live in Cuba/Venezuela?"

Why can't you tell people to "go live in Sweden/Canada?" Why the extreme jump right to Cuba and not, say, Germany?

In a few more years, I think many will be heading to Canada or Europe. I will be moving to Europe within a year. Though if Sweden had Cuba's weather - I'd be there RIGHT NOW!

All-Time Bumper Sticker Winner- Coors Beer Division: America- Love It Or Leave It. Getting stiff, but early, competition from: Don't Socialize My Medicare!

[rjwjr]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Whenever some policy of "redistribution" is brought up - why is it always followed by the average american knee-jerk response: "go live in Cuba/Venezuela?"

Why can't you tell people to "go live in Sweden/Canada?" Why the extreme jump right to Cuba and not, say, Germany?

I guess the "average American" references Cuba and Venezuela because they are the most extreme negative examples of wealth redistribution and other communist-era economic ideas. I would think that an apparently "above-average American" like yourself would not even need to ask that question. Since you asked for it, however...Go live in Sweden, Canada, or Germany.

Canada, Germany, and Sweden are terrific countries, but more people choose to immigrate to the US than those three combined (at least per 2005 statistics http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/im...-net-migration).

In spite of all of the USA bashing, more people still come to the US versus any other country...by far.

And, in spite of all of you and your "above-average American" brethren that feel that the US should be more like , the US still maintains the largest economy...by a huge amount...as well as an incredible list of other benefits, opportunities, and freedoms.

Granted, that may not be what you are looking for in a home country, but rather than trying to weaken the USA, feel free to emigrate to a country more to your liking.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Serge, since you apparently have a strong opinion abou this...

Why do you think that where income gains were previously distributed quite evenly (as a percentage) across all income groups from 1947-1979, they have been increasinly captured to the wealthiest quintile since 1980?

If it's not the policies put in place by Reagan and continued for the past 30 years, what do you point to?

Usury. The income inequality you describe is the natural progression of such a system, yet its exponential nature accelerates over time and with it increasing power to corrupt. It is, in the words of Ezra Pound, against nature. You cannot create something from nothing, yet that is what our oligarchs do, and that was going on long before Reagan.

Was Reagan and every other president of the 20th century part of the problem? Sure. Did his tax cuts perhaps make it easier for these oligarchs to thrive simply because the masses do not understand the difference between investment and loansharking? Of course, but the issue is simple: A select few utilize government authority to essentially steal from the masses.

This issue tore the world apart just 70 years ago, and it may very well do so again.

My opinions on the matter are due more to the aesthetic corruption caused by an economy dominated by usury. As a native of Brooklyn, I grew up seeing what the world was like when workingmen could afford to put 50% down on house and pay it off in 10 years or less. They did not have to settle for the bare minimum that a banker could analyze, they chose to build homes of unique beauty. Once upon a time, people made decisions with their own money. Today, they choose what the banker will let them choose.

[gnk]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

I guess the "average American" references Cuba and Venezuela because they are the most extreme negative examples of wealth redistribution and other communist-era economic ideas. I would think that an apparently "above-average American" like yourself would not even need to ask that question. Since you asked for it, however...Go live in Sweden, Canada, or Germany.

Canada, Germany, and Sweden are terrific countries, but more people choose to immigrate to the US than those three combined (at least per 2005 statistics http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/im...-net-migration).

In spite of all of the USA bashing, more people still come to the US versus any other country...by far.

And, in spite of all of you and your "above-average American" brethren that feel that the US should be more like , the US still maintains the largest economy...by a huge amount...as well as an incredible list of other benefits, opportunities, and freedoms.

Granted, that may not be what you are looking for in a home country, but rather than trying to weaken the USA, feel free to emigrate to a country more to your liking.

According to the statistics you posted, the second highest country on that list is Afghanistan. So according to your logic, the higher up a country is on the list, the better it is to move to? Should I choose to go to Afghanistan (#2) instead of, say, Luxembourg (#54)? And keep in mind, Mexico lost 2 million according to that list. Where do you think they went? Why? How does that affect the US numbers? How many Swedes immigrate to the US? Why? You have to dig a little deeper than to blindly accept conventional wisdom.

Yes, indeed we have the largest economy, but what the OP implies is that the pie has a lot fewer slices than it did in the past - and the trend is getting worse. I guess we can brag to those Europeans that not only do we have more parasitic corporate masters - but they are on average, richer too!

You say I am trying to weaken the USA - maybe I'm not the one trying to weaken the USA - maybe it's you for being easily programmed by the elites. If you believe the USA is strongest when wealth is most concentrated - and that government should be run by the plutocracy to maintain and grow that wealth gap, then that, I have issue with.

The game is rigged my friend. And don't be fooled by those political "patriots" that often say "God bless the United States." They serve the plutocrats at everyone else's expense. If they were honest, they would be saying: "God bless my wealthy patrons!"

[thedanimal]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Here is my simple-minded take on the situation...

2] As a general rule, everyone in the US has a relatively equal oppotunity to improve their financial position in life.

Simple minded indeed. No matter how much evidence exists to the contrary, you insist upon this point. It's just not true.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

I hope you posted this audio as a joke.

I posted it because

when unemployment leaps again, and
housing prices decline another 20 % leading to more foreclosures, and gas heads back towards $4.00 as the dollar devalues, and a few pension funds drastically reduce benefits, while at the same time, those at the forefront of ponzifying the economy make headlines with bonuses, and another Dick Cheney says, "Let them eat cake." ("Four hundred thousand people make some money trading on eBay.")

Huey Long will be reincarnated.

[Master Shake]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Why do you think that where income gains were previously distributed quite evenly (as a percentage) across all income groups from 1947-1979, they have been increasinly captured to the wealthiest quintile since 1980?

After WWII, the US was really the only free market industrial country on the planet, save for Canada and Australia. Europe and Japan were in ruins. From 1945 and the three decades afterwards, we reaped the benefits of being the only game in town, so to speak.

[fliped42]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Simple minded indeed. No matter how much evidence exists to the contrary, you insist upon this point. It's just not true.

What evidence to the contrary. The evidence is overwhelming that america provides everyone with ability or drive to better his or her own economic situation. I can rattle off a dozen people I know who worked 12 hour days 6 days a week and made it from nothing to varing degrees of wealth and moved from the bottom 95% to the top 5 - 1% in a matter of years. Some were cab drivers and now have more wealth then established families. The problem with the socialist is they want everyone to be on their level. They want to be taken care of so they can work 35 hours a week surf the internet on the job and make sure they cannot get fired for being incompetent. They do not want to admit that someone deserves what they get by hard work and preserverance. If the socialist only knew that socialism was invented to control the population by tranfering power from the individual to the government they might understand that they control their own destiny and only insure their poverty and their childrens poverty livng off the productive as opposed to being productive themselve. If they wallow they want to be told he cheated or he had an advantage. But the truth is he had no such thing he just had desire and worked hard to get it.

[WDCRob]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

Usury. The income inequality you describe is the natural progression of such a system

If what you describe has been happening, independent of policy choices, from time immemorial how do you explain the equitable distribution of new wealth from 1947-1979?

[WDCRob]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

After WWII, the US was really the only free market industrial country on the planet, save for Canada and Australia. Europe and Japan were in ruins. From 1945 and the three decades afterwards, we reaped the benefits of being the only game in town, so to speak.

The issue isn't the creation of wealth. It's the distribution of new wealth.

From 1947-1979 it was distributed roughly evenly across all income quintiles. But since 1980 the vast majority of new wealth has been captured by the top quintile. Why?

[Master Shake]

Re: Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains

The issue isn't the creation of wealth. It's the distribution of new wealth.

From 1947-1979 it was distributed roughly evenly across all income quintiles. But since 1980 the vast majority of new wealth has been captured by the top quintile. Why?

Maybe because the reason for the wealth among the lower quintiles was based on lack of competition from abroad in the manufacturing sector. When those industries started facing competition and then being outsourced oversees, you lost the wealth generator.