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Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

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  • Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

    I recommend this article from today's New York Times for those who would like to better understand the difficult choices that confront America's working poor.



    Big Spenders? They Wish

    By PETER S. GOODMAN
    Published: September 12, 2009

    Millions of Americans have lost homes, jobs and savings to the financial crisis and recession. While greed and extravagance played roles, many lived beyond their means because their paychecks shrank. This article is adapted from “Past Due: The End of Easy Money and the Renewal of the American Economy,” by Peter S. Goodman, a reporter for The New York Times. The book, to be published Tuesday by Times Books, explores the origins of the crisis and suggests ways to reinvigorate the economy.

    An excerpt from the article:
    Across the United States a sense has taken hold that the Great Recession and the financial crisis are predominantly a result of national profligacy, as if the economy had been undone by insatiable shoppers, foolhardy home buyers and greedy investment bankers. Extravagance and recklessness certainly played crucial roles, and yet they are only part of the explanation.
    Many have lived beyond their incomes simply because incomes have been outstripped by the costs of middle-class life. By the fall of 2008, most American workers were bringing home roughly the same weekly wages they had earned in 1983, after accounting for inflation.
    “For middle- and low-wage workers, the median wage basically went nowhere over these years,” said the economist Jared Bernstein.
    Spirited and eloquent, Ms. Thomas had worked her way up from rural Oklahoma poverty, enduring the strains of forcibly integrated schools, before settling in California. She had become one of the first African-Americans to sell cosmetics at a Sacramento department store. Then, she forged a career in medical billing, at one point making $22 an hour. She had lived beyond her means, but not out of decadence. For years, she had rented homes in better neighborhoods than she could afford in order to send her two daughters to quality schools. She had run up credit card balances to pay for summer science camps and school supplies. She had never earned more than a high school diploma, but one of her daughters already had a master’s in education; the other was about to start college.
    “I truly bought into the idea that education is the way out of poverty,” Ms. Thomas said. “If your kids are going to school with kids who are preprogrammed to go to college, then that’s what they will expect. I didn’t get myself out of poverty. But I got my daughters out. I was the bridge.”


    Link
    Last edited by Verrocchio; September 13, 2009, 03:09 PM. Reason: left out one word

  • #2
    Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

    Originally posted by Verrocchio View Post
    She had lived beyond her means, but not out of decadence. For years, she had rented homes in better neighborhoods than she could afford in order to send her two daughters to quality schools. She had run up credit card balances to pay for summer science camps and school supplies. She had never earned more than a high school diploma, but one of her daughters already had a master’s in education; the other was about to start college.
    More biased, crap reporting from the New York Times. This whole article is undermined by the above quotation. The assumption underlying the article is that living beyond your means is somehow acceptable behavior-- and that actions do not have consequences.

    I certainly agree that the FIRE economy has stacked the deck against the working poor, but there is never any excuse for living beyond your means. When you have a job, you are supposed to SAVE MONEY for those times when you will inevitably be unemployed.

    I cannot wait for the day to come when the New York Times ceases publication. There are good reasons why newspapers are collapsing-- they produce a crappy product.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

      Originally posted by BuckarooBanzai View Post
      More biased, crap reporting from the New York Times. This whole article is undermined by the above quotation. The assumption underlying the article is that living beyond your means is somehow acceptable behavior-- and that actions do not have consequences.

      I certainly agree that the FIRE economy has stacked the deck against the working poor, but there is never any excuse for living beyond your means. When you have a job, you are supposed to SAVE MONEY for those times when you will inevitably be unemployed.

      I cannot wait for the day to come when the New York Times ceases publication. There are good reasons why newspapers are collapsing-- they produce a crappy product.
      Buckaroo, under normal circumstances I would agree with you, but for now I just can't.

      Where is this poor woman's bailout?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

        Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
        Buckaroo, under normal circumstances I would agree with you, but for now I just can't.

        Where is this poor woman's bailout?
        You know she will not be getting one.


        Btw: Hate the new avatar.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

          Capitalism for the masses, socialism and welfare for the well-connected rich. That's America today.

          Largo Winch's point is entirely valid. She gambled and lost, but it's a political decision not to bail her out. Wall Street was a lot more reckless than her and they got bailed out by taxpayers.
          Last edited by World Traveler; September 13, 2009, 06:21 PM. Reason: spelling

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          • #6
            Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

            Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
            Buckaroo, under normal circumstances I would agree with you, but for now I just can't.

            Where is this poor woman's bailout?
            Sorry. Two wrongs don't make a right.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

              Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
              Btw [LargoWinch]: Hate the new avatar.
              At least it doesn't move. I'll adapt to it.
              Most folks are good; a few aren't.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
                You know she will not be getting one.


                Btw: Hate the new avatar.
                I agree. thumbs down on the avatar.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                  Originally posted by BuckarooBanzai View Post
                  Sorry. Two wrongs don't make a right.
                  Two wrongs as in Banks place a bet and lose, then get bailed out?

                  I am sure that you are aware that it takes two parties for a loan:

                  a) A borrower
                  b) A lender


                  As such, if the loan is not repaid, both could be at fault and on a national scale, I am here to tell you that on average both were.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                    Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
                    Two wrongs as in Banks place a bet and lose, then get bailed out?

                    I am sure that you are aware that it takes two parties for a loan:

                    a) A borrower
                    b) A lender


                    As such, if the loan is not repaid, both could be at fault and on a national scale, I am here to tell you that on average both were.
                    No, I mean, if it is wrong to bail out banks for making bad decisions, it is also wrong to bail out "little people" who make bad decisions.

                    Pick one side or the other. You are either for bailouts, or against them. But to say that just because the banks got bailouts, then everyone should, puts us into a world where moral hazard is everywhere.

                    We need to fix the problem at the source, and the source is the Federal Reserve System, a system that has made banks unaccountable to anyone except themselves.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                      Originally posted by BuckarooBanzai View Post

                      Pick one side or the other. You are either for bailouts, or against them. But to say that just because the banks got bailouts, then everyone should, puts us into a world where moral hazard is everywhere.
                      I am certainly against them, hence my posts in this thread.

                      That "poor woman" should go bankrupt in a no bailout world is exactly my point.

                      Originally posted by BuckarooBanzai View Post
                      We need to fix the problem at the source, and the source is the Federal Reserve System, a system that has made banks unaccountable to anyone except themselves.

                      Different subject and I am not going there tonight, but if you read some of my posts you already have your answer from me on that one.
                      Last edited by LargoWinch; September 13, 2009, 07:11 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                        Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
                        You know she will not be getting one.


                        Btw: Hate the new avatar.
                        cjppjc, my favorite realtor who doesn't like my new avatar! Now I am truly hurt.

                        You are a the wise marketing man between us both and you know it.

                        So tell me, what should be done? Revert to the cartoon bombastic "don't take myself seriously" avatar or our fine man here Jules-Henri Poincare?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                          Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
                          cjppjc, my favorite realtor who doesn't like my new avatar! Now I am truly hurt.

                          You are a the wise marketing man between us both and you know it.

                          So tell me, what should be done? Revert to the cartoon bombastic "don't take myself seriously" avatar or our fine man here Jules-Henri Poincare?

                          I liked the old avatar. Sue me. It's funny how you associate the written word with the picture you see. To me the pumping fist of righteous indignation is...... LargoWinch.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                            Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
                            I liked the old avatar. Sue me. It's funny how you associate the written word with the picture you see. To me the pumping fist of righteous indignation is...... LargoWinch.
                            Well, FRED; EJ, if you are out there, please note that I did my best and it lasted less than 12 hours. ;)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Little Folks=Big Spenders? Think Again

                              Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
                              Well, FRED; EJ, if you are out there, please note that I did my best and it lasted less than 12 hours. ;)

                              Good to have you back.



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