The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

[sunskyfan]

This is a remarkable coincidence that says volumes I think.


http://www.nydailynews.com/money/200...e_started.html

[Raz]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

In March of 2003 I told several of my friends - all Republicans - that "W" would prove to be a disaster.

I based it on three reasons: (1) He was not only going to invade a country that had not attacked us, but was going to pay for it the LBJ way - borrow the money and let someone else worry about paying the bill; (2) If we thought Israel had a good deal by holding the West Bank, then we would get a great deal on Iraq - our very own West Bank, only ten times as much fun; we Southerners might call it a "Tar Baby"; and (3) "W's" economic policy plus his foreign policy was a phony conservatism which would fail, and the real Conservatism (sound money + a republic - not a 'friggin empire!) would take the fall for these NeoCon nitwits.

I might not be right about everything but I think I called that one pretty well. :cool:

[don]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

In March of 2003 I told several of my friends - all Republicans - that "W" would prove to be a disaster.

I based it on three reasons: (1) He was not only going to invade a country that had not attacked us, but was going to pay for it the LBJ way - borrow the money and let someone else worry about paying the bill; (2) If we thought Israel had a good deal by holding the West Bank, then we would get a great deal on Iraq - our very own West Bank, only ten times as much fun; we Southerners might call it a "Tar Baby"; and (3) "W's" economic policy plus his foreign policy was a phony conservatism which would fail, and the real Conservatism (sound money + a republic - not a 'friggin empire!) would take the fall for these NeoCon nitwits.

I might not be right about everything but I think I called that one pretty well. :cool:

Thanks, RAZ, that felt good. I beat my brains out with my "conservative Republican" friends that they are just the R brand of neoliberals, and simply can't get it through their alligator hides that if anything, they're easier taken in then the unabashed liberals.

I'm sure you remember who they used to be- bigger government, more intrusive government, deficit spending, over-active foreign policy, military adventurism. Kind of describes today's "conservative republican", too :rolleyes:

[bcassill]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

In March of 2003 I told several of my friends - all Republicans - that "W" would prove to be a disaster.

I based it on three reasons: (1) He was not only going to invade a country that had not attacked us, but was going to pay for it the LBJ way - borrow the money and let someone else worry about paying the bill; (2) If we thought Israel had a good deal by holding the West Bank, then we would get a great deal on Iraq - our very own West Bank, only ten times as much fun; we Southerners might call it a "Tar Baby"; and (3) "W's" economic policy plus his foreign policy was a phony conservatism which would fail, and the real Conservatism (sound money + a republic - not a 'friggin empire!) would take the fall for these NeoCon nitwits.

I might not be right about everything but I think I called that one pretty well. :cool:

Raz,

Funny you mention the "W" debacle. I was a fairly die hard Republican until "W" came onto the scene and gave his famous speech at Bob Jones University in SC where he extolled to the audience "I am one of you." (You know, the religious university that had the student policy preventing interracial dating. Nice touch don't you think?).

And what do we get? A doubling of the national debt, wars without end, growth in the size of government, more Wall Street deregulation, and a chip on your shoulder foreign policy all brought to us by the religious hacks and neocons wearing the veneer of conservative respectability. The whole thing is enough to make you sick.

I want my economic freedom back, my religious freedom back, and my ideological freedom back without the fear of winding up on some "list" as a threat to national security or some other such nonsense. Then again, maybe that's what it will take to change things.

Just sayin.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

What should be the title of this thread: Stocks back to where they were on September 10, 2001

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/09/12/2009-09-12_stocks_back_where_we_started.html#ixzz0Qvw1d1Ar

And as Paul Harvey used to say "And now for the rest of the story."



The number 37144 is 9/10/01, and 40067 is 9/11/09, sorry I screwed that up.

[Starving Steve]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

In March of 2003 I told several of my friends - all Republicans - that "W" would prove to be a disaster.

I based it on three reasons: (1) He was not only going to invade a country that had not attacked us, but was going to pay for it the LBJ way - borrow the money and let someone else worry about paying the bill; (2) If we thought Israel had a good deal by holding the West Bank, then we would get a great deal on Iraq - our very own West Bank, only ten times as much fun; we Southerners might call it a "Tar Baby"; and (3) "W's" economic policy plus his foreign policy was a phony conservatism which would fail, and the real Conservatism (sound money + a republic - not a 'friggin empire!) would take the fall for these NeoCon nitwits.

I might not be right about everything but I think I called that one pretty well. :cool:

My 2c: George W. got America into nation-building adventures financed by deficits; W. went along with Wall St. and Greenspan's policy of taking interest rates down below the rate of inflation; W. went along with Arthur Laffer's supply-side economics and inflated the economy deeper into debt; W. catered to his extremists in the Republican Party base who grew stronger with the Bush Administration; W's school reform policy of "back-to-basics", "skill-'n-drill", nationalism, English-only, and timed-testing set public education in America back another 100 years; W. went along with Greenspan's complete de-regulation of Wall St. on the mistaken theory that markets self-regulate; and W. did not hit America's enemies in the Middle East, and instead, let America's enemies flourish. (For example, the cancer of Iran continued to fester.); W. went along with Greenspan's mistaken belief that America could prosper without manufacturing and exports.

Sadly, I don't see much of a change with the policies of Obama.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

In March of 2003 I told several of my friends - all Republicans - that "W" would prove to be a disaster.

Those problems weren't W doing that. If he hadn't gone along and played his part, he'd likely not be with the living.

Who is President seems to matter about as much as who is the World Wrestling Federation champion. Might as well vote for whichever one gives the best speech; though between Bush, Gore and Kerry, that was a difficult choice.

[Raz]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

Those problems weren't W doing that. If he hadn't gone along and played his part, he'd likely not be with the living.

Who is President seems to matter about as much as who is the World Wrestling Federation champion. Might as well vote for whichever one gives the best speech; though between Bush, Gore and Kerry, that was a difficult choice.

When it comes to the super-insane level of Federal spending you're correct: "W" is not solely to blame. Denny Hastert and Trent Lott come to mind - they spent the better part of two decades attacking the "tax-n-spend" Democratic Party, then proceeded to morph into the very same vote-buying rat bastards! They were worse than useless: they betrayed any principles they claimed as their own as well as betraying the people who voted for them. These swine made it into the LBJ spender's league!

However, in the matter of foreign policy, "W" is almost 100% to blame.
To say otherwise is to pretend that the useless, gutless, self-serving Congress would have declared war on Iraq with or without the approval or instigation of George W. Dumbass.

So on that particular issue, Mr. Cow, I must disagree with you.

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

I work in the DOD research field. I remember being at a dinner party sometime between the beginning of the Iraq war and the 04 election with some of my colleagues. There was a conversation about W who there was solid support for in that group. I, the loan Democrat at the party, remarked that I thought the Republican party would rue the day the every associated with this man. I was greeted with disbelief.

Though a Democrat, I have respected and even supported Republicans at various times. I really never thought one man could bring down the USA. Kind of the same confidence I always had that the US and USSR could never be stupid enough to blow up the world. GWB may have managed that feat.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

However, in the matter of foreign policy, "W" is almost 100% to blame. To say otherwise is to pretend that the useless, gutless, self-serving Congress would have declared war on Iraq with or without the approval or instigation of George W. Dumbass.

So on that particular issue, Mr. Cow, I must disagree with you.

I didn't say, and don't think, that Congress was primarily responsible for the War on Terror or the War in Iraq.

I quite agree that it wasn't that useless, gutless, self-serving body.

As to what I do suspect, I won't get into that here. My economic tin-foil-hat theories are tolerated well enough here, but I doubt iTulip is the right place to advance some of my other views.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

I, the lone Democrat at the party, remarked that I thought the Republican party would rue the day the every associated with this man. I was greeted with disbelief.

I would have happily joined my Republican colleagues at that time.

I now agree that those eight years, as were many years before and the current partial year after, demonstrate a serious threat the U.S., the freedom of its citizens and the well being of many other people on this planet.

GWB may have managed that feat.

I wouldn't give GWB that much discredit. It was more than him.

[Godozo]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

When it comes to the super-insane level of Federal spending you're correct: "W" is not solely to blame. Denny Hastert and Trent Lott come to mind - they spent the better part of two decades attacking the "tax-n-spend" Democratic Party, then proceeded to morph into the very same vote-buying rat bastards!

Actually, they became WORSE: Tax and Borrow. At least the "tax-n-spend" Democrats made an effort to control the deficit. (Until Obama, alas.....assuming he's a Democrat, of course....)

[hayekvindicated]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

When it comes to the super-insane level of Federal spending you're correct: "W" is not solely to blame. Denny Hastert and Trent Lott come to mind - they spent the better part of two decades attacking the "tax-n-spend" Democratic Party, then proceeded to morph into the very same vote-buying rat bastards! They were worse than useless: they betrayed any principles they claimed as their own as well as betraying the people who voted for them. These swine made it into the LBJ spender's league!

However, in the matter of foreign policy, "W" is almost 100% to blame.
To say otherwise is to pretend that the useless, gutless, self-serving Congress would have declared war on Iraq with or without the approval or instigation of George W. Dumbass.

So on that particular issue, Mr. Cow, I must disagree with you.

There actually is no difference between the two parties because they are both elected by the same electorate. And history has shown that the electorate's votes can be bought with Federal money. As long as that continues to be the case, the public will keep electing pork barrel Republicans and tax and spend Democrats.

Hate to say this but, as Aristotle said, the people get the rulers they deserve.

This is true of every country. I get endless complaints about the political corruption in India (where Im from) from my friends back home. I ask them the same question I ask American and British friends who complain about the politicians: who elects these politicians?

[swgprop]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Zero Sum Existence of America the Last 8 Years

That's awsome!