U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

[DaveBrown42]

Sept. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Commerce Department decided to impose duties of as much as 31 percent on steel pipe from China, agreeing with American producers led by U.S. Steel Corp. that the imports were supported by unfair subsidies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aeCs8tF5F5g8

(I'm fairly sure Eric said we'd start to see countries beating each other up with protectionist (and counter-protectionist) measures, but I can't seem to find where he said it. Can anyone help me out on that?)

EDIT: Bloomberg edited the title and content of the article immediately after I made this post. Here's a new sample:

China Opposes U.S. Duties on Steel Pipes Used in Oil Industry

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- China “strongly opposes” a ruling by the U.S. Commerce Department to impose duties of as much as 31 percent on steel pipes, a Chinese government spokesman said.
“The Ministry of Commerce is very concerned about the ruling and strongly opposes it,” said a spokesman from the Chinese ministry, who declined to be named. He said an official statement will be released later, without elaborating.

[bcassill]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

I don't know what everyone's problem with their pipes are supposed to be. I mean who cares if their pipes are exported on a subsidy? Don't you all remember what a good product their gypsum board/sheet rock turned out to be? Or how about all those cute toys? You know, the ones with the lead paint included. You have to look mighty hard to find quality like that. Yes, sireee...:rolleyes:

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aeCs8tF5F5g8

(I'm fairly sure Eric said we'd start to see countries beating each other up with protectionist (and counter-protectionist) measures, but I can't seem to find where he said it. Can anyone help me out on that?)

EDIT: Bloomberg edited the title and content of the article immediately after I made this post. Here's a new sample:

Instead of going after the bankers on Wall Street, looks like the Obama Administration prefers to go after the banker that underwrites much of the debt issued by the US of A instead...:p

U.S. Imposes Preliminary Duties on Chinese Oil Pipe Exports

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. imposed duties of as much as 99 percent on steel pipes from China after American producers led by U.S. Steel Corp. complained they were being dumped at below-market prices.

The duties on $2.6 billion in annual imports of the pipes, used in oil and gas wells, will be 36.5 percent for the 37 largest exporters, the Commerce Department said in a preliminary decision announced by e-mail yesterday. The tariffs will be on top of separate duties announced in September averaging 21 percent to counter subsidies to Chinese producers.

The U.S. ruling comes ahead of President Barack Obama’s Nov. 16 visit to meet China’s President Hu Jintao...

...Trade tensions are on the rise after Obama imposed tariffs on Chinese tires in September and China responded with a complaint to the WTO. China announced plans to investigate U.S. exports of poultry, auto parts and automobiles...

[Slimprofits]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

Obama Commerce dept. will get their cost-push inflation come hell or high water.

And look what happened here:

http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/ma...-prices-up-yet

October 22nd, 2009

Several manufacturers have announced price hikes, but they haven't yet affected the retail level. Bridgestone Americas announced last week that prices will increase by up to 15 percent on some passenger and light-truck tires under the Primewell, Firestone, and Dayton brand names, and Pirelli announced last week that it will raise prices 10 percent on its P4 and P5 P4 Four Seasons and Cinturato P5 passenger tire lines. Cooper and Toyo have also said that prices will rise between 10 and 15 percent on some of their most affordable tires.

[touchring]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

Earlier on i mentioned that the Chinese government has been buy iron ore like it were free and the steel made from this ore has to go somewhere.

Instead of going after the bankers on Wall Street, looks like the Obama Administration prefers to go after the banker that underwrites much of the debt issued by the US of A instead...:p

U.S. Imposes Preliminary Duties on Chinese Oil Pipe Exports

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. imposed duties of as much as 99 percent on steel pipes from China after American producers led by U.S. Steel Corp. complained they were being dumped at below-market prices.

The duties on $2.6 billion in annual imports of the pipes, used in oil and gas wells, will be 36.5 percent for the 37 largest exporters, the Commerce Department said in a preliminary decision announced by e-mail yesterday. The tariffs will be on top of separate duties announced in September averaging 21 percent to counter subsidies to Chinese producers.

The U.S. ruling comes ahead of President Barack Obama’s Nov. 16 visit to meet China’s President Hu Jintao...

...Trade tensions are on the rise after Obama imposed tariffs on Chinese tires in September and China responded with a complaint to the WTO. China announced plans to investigate U.S. exports of poultry, auto parts and automobiles...

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

Earlier on i mentioned that the Chinese government has been buy iron ore like it were free and the steel made from this ore has to go somewhere.

Iron ore prices are off their peak from last year, but still quite elevated by historical measures. Met coal prices are also quite high [see chart and table below].

I can't understand how the Chinese can make steel competitively when they have to import the major inputs and then pay to move the finished product across an ocean to a market.

The US-based steel makers, with their vertically integrated operations and low Dollar, should be among the lowest cost producers in the world.




Coking coal export prices

Year/ Month	Coking Coal $/ton
1996 Q1	$46.28
1996 Q2	$45.73
1996 Q3	$45.08
1996 Q4	$44.95
1997 Q1	$46.60
1997 Q2	$45.58
1997 Q3	$44.73
1997 Q4	$44.96
1998 Q1	$46.09
1998 Q2	$44.65
1998 Q3	$43.93
1998 Q4	$43.46
1999 Q1	$44.87
1999 Q2	$41.97
1999 Q3	$40.29
1999 Q4	$40.20
2000 Q1	$40.49
2000 Q2	$38.20
2000 Q3	$39.53
2000 Q4	$37.67
2001 Q1	$39.25
2001 Q2	$40.12
2001 Q3	$43.19
2001 Q4	$44.74
2002 Q1	$46.82
2002 Q2	$44.24
2002 Q3	$45.33
2002 Q4	$45.70
2003 Q1	$46.34
2003 Q2	$44.62
2003 Q3	$43.10
2003 Q4	$43.99
2004 Q1	$54.10
2004 Q2	$65.32
2004 Q3	$67.33
2004 Q4	$68.43
2005 Q1	$73.65
2005 Q2	$81.27
2005 Q3	$85.92
2005 Q4	$85.98
2006 Q1	$91.90
2006 Q2	$90.08
2006 Q3	$90.65
2006 Q4	$90.70
2007 Q1	$91.81
2007 Q2	$86.49
2007 Q3	$87.99
2007 Q4	$90.19
2008 Q1	$98.90
2008 Q2	$129.91
2008 Q3	$149.30
2008 Q4	$156.65
2009 Q1	$133.86
2009 Q2	$115.25

[Fiat Currency]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

I can't understand how the Chinese can make steel competitively when they have to import the major inputs and then pay to move the finished product across an ocean to a market.

Logic is not useful here.

They are trying to employ their people, and use up some ever-devaluing USD$. Nothing more. They hope to get better in the future.

This is not the only industry they are doing this in. They are losing money all over Africa too.

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

Logic is not useful here.

They are trying to employ their people, and use up some ever-devaluing USD$. Nothing more. They hope to get better in the future.

This is not the only industry they are doing this in. They are losing money all over Africa too.

It appears indicative of the "Bubble with Chinese characteristics" that EJ described.

600 million tons per annum of installed steel making capacity [largest of any nation in the world], apparently 120 million tons/yr of which is currently idle, and another 60 million tons per annum of new capacity being installed under the stimulus program.

They should expect tariffs...and not just from the USA.

[Fiat Currency]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

They should expect tariffs...and not just from the USA.

Yes. The same is true even of Canada. :eek:

It continues to get "sporty" ... just as predicted. ;)

If one had started to position their people, capital, production and assets accordingly (only 5-10 years ago) - there's a killing of profits that are going to be made here for the next several years.

[touchring]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

It appears indicative of the "Bubble with Chinese characteristics" that EJ described.

600 million tons per annum of installed steel making capacity [largest of any nation in the world], apparently 120 million tons/yr of which is currently idle, and another 60 million tons per annum of new capacity being installed under the stimulus program.

120 million tons excess capacity sounds scary, but the big steel companies are still making money.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/3592662

[strittmatter]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

Iron ore prices are off their peak from last year, but still quite elevated by historical measures. Met coal prices are also quite high [see chart and table below].

I can't understand how the Chinese can make steel competitively when they have to import the major inputs and then pay to move the finished product across an ocean to a market.

The US-based steel makers, with their vertically integrated operations and low Dollar, should be among the lowest cost producers in the world.

A couple of local steel pipe brokers whom I have worked with for years tend to think that China's newer and more efficient mills have a huge roll to play here - along with their cheap labor. I'm not so sure that is accurate. Regardless of whatever china's actual net production costs are, the wholesale purchase prices for china pipe predominately fluctuates alongside (or just under) domestic production cost.

In my experience, quality issues with china pipe are endless and much of it does not meet new pipe specifications - especially with respect to water well casing standards. My broker will physically inspect, test and drift every new batch before he makes offer. His accept / reject ratio to date is around 50%.

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

A couple of local steel pipe brokers whom I have worked with for years tend to think that China's newer and more efficient mills have a huge roll to play here - along with their cheap labor. I'm not so sure that is accurate. Regardless of whatever china's actual net production costs are, the wholesale purchase prices for china pipe predominately fluctuates alongside (or just under) domestic production cost.

In my experience, quality issues with china pipe are endless and much of it does not meet new pipe specifications - especially with respect to water well casing standards. My broker will physically inspect, test and drift every new batch before he makes offer. His accept / reject ratio to date is around 50%.

And the time and money to inspect & test each batch is yet another added cost to the price of Chinese pipe [and other Chinese products].

The USA has to restructure [rebuild?] its economy, but people are seriously underestimating the competitive advantages the USA has over much of the rest of the world, including Chinese steel makers.

[strittmatter]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

And the time and money to inspect & test each batch is yet another added cost to the price of Chinese pipe [and other Chinese products].

The USA has to restructure [rebuild?] its economy, but people are seriously underestimating the competitive advantages the USA has over much of the rest of the world, including Chinese steel makers.

Couldn't agree more.

Too many domestic producers, it would seem, have scaled way back and/or "given up" - which is economicaly understood and all. The problem I've had all too often over the past few years has been that the availability on various needed sizes and quantities at any given time could only be found at the port in Houston.

And again, it has to be carefully sorted through, most of it is junk.

[touchring]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

A couple of local steel pipe brokers whom I have worked with for years tend to think that China's newer and more efficient mills have a huge roll to play here - along with their cheap labor. I'm not so sure that is accurate. Regardless of whatever china's actual net production costs are, the wholesale purchase prices for china pipe predominately fluctuates alongside (or just under) domestic production cost.

In my experience, quality issues with china pipe are endless and much of it does not meet new pipe specifications - especially with respect to water well casing standards. My broker will physically inspect, test and drift every new batch before he makes offer. His accept / reject ratio to date is around 50%.

when you are paid by your government each time you make a pipe, it doesn't matter if they meet specifications.

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. to Impose Duties on Pipe Imported From China

when you are paid by your government each time you make a pipe, it doesn't matter if they meet specifications.

In the oil and gas industry it matters a lot. People get killed when pipes filled with flammable fluids rupture and ignite. Whether it's buried underground or on a refinery piperack, the integrity of the steel and the manufacturing process is paramount.

Many years ago my firm started having problems with pipe manufactured in Japan [at that time, late-80's, Japan was the house of the rising sun, hotbed of "quality", and about to dominate the world economy]. It got to the point where we simply implemented a blanket ban on purchases of Japanese pipe because the cost and the risk of trying to sort the crap from the good stuff was more than we were prepared to undertake.