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Re: Repost: Corporate Fascism is just a Supreme Court Decision Away
Ah yes. Dude sorry, I'm leading you astray, (yeah I mean it, I screwed up). (appologized to everyone over on the select side, for starting this debate on the wrong foot, that was my fault) I was trying to convey the gravity of the situation, not to seek further political polarization. That NOT the message I wanted you to walk away with. Fuck the essay then, but do go watch parts 1 and 2. Please trust me, and see my follow-up post below.
Sorry shake, I did a disservice to you. The REAL MESSAGE that I want you to walk away with is listed in the next post.
Here is the link to the select thread and also my response to Cow on much the same concern.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11729
"Originally Posted by ThePythonicCow
However jtabeb had another purpose and focus in his post, now clearer from the corrected set of three links at the end of that post, to which EJ responded.
That focus was concern for the excessive, dangerous and increasing oligarchical fascist control of America.
That is a very valid concern. I agree.
JTABEB:
You got it Cow!
Hit the nail with the hammer.
I will have you know that I gave 50/50 to the election campaigns of Ron Paul and Barak Obama. (In Hindsight, Dennis Kuccinich would have been a better choice than B.O.) Ha funny initials just noticed that.
Cow, I owe you a debt of gratitude and am humbled by your ability to see past what was a quickfire response launched in anger and your ability to hone in on what I WAS TRULY trying to communicate. As a Patriot, I see the greatest risk that our country has ever faced, and the threat eminates from with-in our own process and systems, which have been systemically compromised over the last 100 or so years.
In order:
Federal Reserve System 1913
Gold Confiscation 1933 (not to goverment, but to a Private Banking Cartel). And the BANNING of the ability of the individual to protect themselves from the ravages of inflation by making gold ownership ILLEGAL! The Treasury does not hold the gold that was surrendered by the citizens of this country under the errant eye of Roosevelt, the Federal Reserve does. (yes, that is a fact, look it up. The Fed Holds US gold as collateral against the US Debt).
PONZIFICATION of our social safety net system SS,Medicare, and defined benefit pension plans. The money collected was spent not for benefits, or set aside as savings, but to reduce the "official budget deficit". The Defined Benefit plans have already been largely foisted on to the backs of the taxpayer (with a 75% reduction in benefits for recipients). The same will follow for government employees (except politicians) and for social security and medicare recipients.
Repudiation of Gold for settlement of international trade (closing of the Gold window in 1971)
Deceitful misstating of Goverment statistics R.E. loss of purchasing power due to inflation, and unemployment stats which hid the fact that two working people were now required to produce the same standard of living for a family of four that previously, a single worker could achieve. (that number is 2.5 today and RISING!) Not to mention the escalating divergence between education, health care, and housing costs vs the "reported" rate of inflation. (Don't forget that wonderful magic of "substitution" and "hedonic adjustment" either).
And as we have learned from EJ, the "FINANCIALIZATION" and "BUBBLEIZATION" of the economy into and asset inflating/deflating machine.
The Repeal of Financial Protection Regulation (Glass Stegal) and the non-enforcement of regulations and the conflict of interests of the regulators and those that they regulate. (same can be said of the revolving door between the private sector and the public sector, be it Goldman Sachs to Treasury or Congress to "K" street)
This is SOME but not all of the relevant history that led us to where we are today. I've only hit the major points as I see them. I will try to edit this later so it is more fleshed out.
But I left the most important aspect as it applies to TODAY's state of affairs for last.
And that is the HIJACKING of the Conservative Social and Religious "Family Value" platform (and even Ayn Rand's own Epistemology, which I happen to believe does the great service of explaining EXACTLY what is transpiring in our society today) to serve the corporate interest though a disinformation effort that encourages those that hold this political ideology to ACT AGAINST THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS. And a similar effort on the Left that legitimizes the privatization of corporate profit (with tax advantaged status) whilst simultaneously ADVOCATING the Socialization of Risk on the backs of the tax payer.
I think I did EVERYONE a disservice by producing such a rushed response and further by leading off with Bill Moyers Essay. I was trying to FOCUS on the gravity of the situation, but instead turned off half the readership here. (Not a very good way to act in the public interest, and I humbly appologize for that). Again, I have to thank Cow for having the persistence and the patience, to wallow through what I was trying to say and FIND THE CORE MESSAGE.
I myself am extremely angry with President Obama.
His gross misconduct in (mis)handling the Financial bailout (which should be more appropriately termed Theft from the taxpayer and gift to FIRE Economy) and his absolutely FALSE claim that the the economy is on the path to sustained recovery due to the efforts of Himself, Chairman Bernanke, Sec. Summers, et-al. In addition there is his dogged failure to do what a "reform" candidate is supposed to do, namely "reform the system". And I especially do not appreciate his increasing intervention in the financial system to preserve the status quo, when the status quo is EXACTLY got us into this mess in the first place.
I am by no means enthralled with Obama. In Fact, I am absolutely DISGUSTED with his financial and economic policies and EVEN more so with his support of Chairman Bernanke's Monetary policies, even though I voted for the jackass.
I am speaking to all of you today because the entire spectrum of American Society stands to lose in this Supreme Court Case (except for the corporate spectrum, that is).
All of us from moderates to right-wing "wingnuts", leftwing "commie-socialists" to social conservatives, hard-money advocates to Gay and Lesbian rights activists will BE HARMED, IRREVOCABLY SO, by this decision.
I don't care who your are, if you are A INDIVIDUAL, your voice is about to be silenced, drown out by the vast amounts of corporate money that will tower 105+ decibels any voice that you or I could muster, individually or collectively.
The Form of our government Changes with this decision(if it comes down on the side of corporate speech) from a Democratic Republic (which is quite Plutocratic and which exhibits Oligarchical capture of the political process and regulatory authorities) to a FULL FLEDGED CORPORATE FASCIST POLICE STATE.
United we can STAND AGAINST THIS, Divided, WE ALL, EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WILL FALL.
We will ALL become surfs to the Corporate masters of this country. This CAN NOT HAPPEN, or the United States will Cease to BE, and the Totalitarian Plutocratic Oligarchy of First USA Inc. will take it's place.
That's Why, I wrote this.
My purpose was NOT, to offend HALF of the alliance that it will take to be victorious in this quest!
(Thanks again Cow, you are much better tempered man than I)"
And Here Was What I wanted people to Take Away from the discussion.
"I, in my rush to post this, FAILED to include the MOST IMPORTANT IMPLICATION OF THIS DECISION, should the law change and make Corporate Speech Protected Speech, under the First Amendment.
If you look at the recent example of the Wall Street Bailout, where Trillions of Funds were provided in the form of guarantees and "trash for cash" swaps.
Just imagine if this decision comes down IN FAVOR of protected corporate speech.
Now, were this to come to fruition. A corporate entity that received bail-out funds, could USE self-same public Funds To LOBBY for ADDITIONAL FUNDS, and the process could repeat Ad-Infinitum.
Think About that, a corporation could use corporate funds to lobby for PUBLIC funds, and then COULD USE THOSE PUBLIC FUNDS to lobby for ADDITIONAL PUBLIC FUNDS, again, and again, and AGAIN!
If you think the bail-out was a criminal offense the the American People, then YOU MUST, YOU CAN'T SUPPORT the concept of "Protected" corporate speech.
It is as simple as that.
Please, think of the ramifications and the horrors that would result when an already captive and corrupt system GETS TRUMPED buy and EVEN MORE POWERFUL and CORRUPT and CAPTIVE SYSTEM takes it's place.
Think about it."
And Finally, this partial quote by FRED:
"Interesting that Moyers' observation of the power of the Insurance arm of the FIRE Economy media to frame the health care debate is quickly sidetracked even here among the well informed iTulip readership by an argument about right versus left positions on the topic.
While we're arguing about that, as the member who posted this thread points out, the foundations of a corporate fascist state are being built."
That's the take away, sorry the lack of clarity on WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.
V/R
JT
Originally posted by Master Shake
View Post
Sorry shake, I did a disservice to you. The REAL MESSAGE that I want you to walk away with is listed in the next post.
Here is the link to the select thread and also my response to Cow on much the same concern.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11729
"Originally Posted by ThePythonicCow
However jtabeb had another purpose and focus in his post, now clearer from the corrected set of three links at the end of that post, to which EJ responded.
That focus was concern for the excessive, dangerous and increasing oligarchical fascist control of America.
That is a very valid concern. I agree.
JTABEB:
You got it Cow!
Hit the nail with the hammer.
I will have you know that I gave 50/50 to the election campaigns of Ron Paul and Barak Obama. (In Hindsight, Dennis Kuccinich would have been a better choice than B.O.) Ha funny initials just noticed that.
Cow, I owe you a debt of gratitude and am humbled by your ability to see past what was a quickfire response launched in anger and your ability to hone in on what I WAS TRULY trying to communicate. As a Patriot, I see the greatest risk that our country has ever faced, and the threat eminates from with-in our own process and systems, which have been systemically compromised over the last 100 or so years.
In order:
Federal Reserve System 1913
Gold Confiscation 1933 (not to goverment, but to a Private Banking Cartel). And the BANNING of the ability of the individual to protect themselves from the ravages of inflation by making gold ownership ILLEGAL! The Treasury does not hold the gold that was surrendered by the citizens of this country under the errant eye of Roosevelt, the Federal Reserve does. (yes, that is a fact, look it up. The Fed Holds US gold as collateral against the US Debt).
PONZIFICATION of our social safety net system SS,Medicare, and defined benefit pension plans. The money collected was spent not for benefits, or set aside as savings, but to reduce the "official budget deficit". The Defined Benefit plans have already been largely foisted on to the backs of the taxpayer (with a 75% reduction in benefits for recipients). The same will follow for government employees (except politicians) and for social security and medicare recipients.
Repudiation of Gold for settlement of international trade (closing of the Gold window in 1971)
Deceitful misstating of Goverment statistics R.E. loss of purchasing power due to inflation, and unemployment stats which hid the fact that two working people were now required to produce the same standard of living for a family of four that previously, a single worker could achieve. (that number is 2.5 today and RISING!) Not to mention the escalating divergence between education, health care, and housing costs vs the "reported" rate of inflation. (Don't forget that wonderful magic of "substitution" and "hedonic adjustment" either).
And as we have learned from EJ, the "FINANCIALIZATION" and "BUBBLEIZATION" of the economy into and asset inflating/deflating machine.
The Repeal of Financial Protection Regulation (Glass Stegal) and the non-enforcement of regulations and the conflict of interests of the regulators and those that they regulate. (same can be said of the revolving door between the private sector and the public sector, be it Goldman Sachs to Treasury or Congress to "K" street)
This is SOME but not all of the relevant history that led us to where we are today. I've only hit the major points as I see them. I will try to edit this later so it is more fleshed out.
But I left the most important aspect as it applies to TODAY's state of affairs for last.
And that is the HIJACKING of the Conservative Social and Religious "Family Value" platform (and even Ayn Rand's own Epistemology, which I happen to believe does the great service of explaining EXACTLY what is transpiring in our society today) to serve the corporate interest though a disinformation effort that encourages those that hold this political ideology to ACT AGAINST THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS. And a similar effort on the Left that legitimizes the privatization of corporate profit (with tax advantaged status) whilst simultaneously ADVOCATING the Socialization of Risk on the backs of the tax payer.
I think I did EVERYONE a disservice by producing such a rushed response and further by leading off with Bill Moyers Essay. I was trying to FOCUS on the gravity of the situation, but instead turned off half the readership here. (Not a very good way to act in the public interest, and I humbly appologize for that). Again, I have to thank Cow for having the persistence and the patience, to wallow through what I was trying to say and FIND THE CORE MESSAGE.
I myself am extremely angry with President Obama.
His gross misconduct in (mis)handling the Financial bailout (which should be more appropriately termed Theft from the taxpayer and gift to FIRE Economy) and his absolutely FALSE claim that the the economy is on the path to sustained recovery due to the efforts of Himself, Chairman Bernanke, Sec. Summers, et-al. In addition there is his dogged failure to do what a "reform" candidate is supposed to do, namely "reform the system". And I especially do not appreciate his increasing intervention in the financial system to preserve the status quo, when the status quo is EXACTLY got us into this mess in the first place.
I am by no means enthralled with Obama. In Fact, I am absolutely DISGUSTED with his financial and economic policies and EVEN more so with his support of Chairman Bernanke's Monetary policies, even though I voted for the jackass.
I am speaking to all of you today because the entire spectrum of American Society stands to lose in this Supreme Court Case (except for the corporate spectrum, that is).
All of us from moderates to right-wing "wingnuts", leftwing "commie-socialists" to social conservatives, hard-money advocates to Gay and Lesbian rights activists will BE HARMED, IRREVOCABLY SO, by this decision.
I don't care who your are, if you are A INDIVIDUAL, your voice is about to be silenced, drown out by the vast amounts of corporate money that will tower 105+ decibels any voice that you or I could muster, individually or collectively.
The Form of our government Changes with this decision(if it comes down on the side of corporate speech) from a Democratic Republic (which is quite Plutocratic and which exhibits Oligarchical capture of the political process and regulatory authorities) to a FULL FLEDGED CORPORATE FASCIST POLICE STATE.
United we can STAND AGAINST THIS, Divided, WE ALL, EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WILL FALL.
We will ALL become surfs to the Corporate masters of this country. This CAN NOT HAPPEN, or the United States will Cease to BE, and the Totalitarian Plutocratic Oligarchy of First USA Inc. will take it's place.
That's Why, I wrote this.
My purpose was NOT, to offend HALF of the alliance that it will take to be victorious in this quest!
(Thanks again Cow, you are much better tempered man than I)"
And Here Was What I wanted people to Take Away from the discussion.
"I, in my rush to post this, FAILED to include the MOST IMPORTANT IMPLICATION OF THIS DECISION, should the law change and make Corporate Speech Protected Speech, under the First Amendment.
If you look at the recent example of the Wall Street Bailout, where Trillions of Funds were provided in the form of guarantees and "trash for cash" swaps.
Just imagine if this decision comes down IN FAVOR of protected corporate speech.
Now, were this to come to fruition. A corporate entity that received bail-out funds, could USE self-same public Funds To LOBBY for ADDITIONAL FUNDS, and the process could repeat Ad-Infinitum.
Think About that, a corporation could use corporate funds to lobby for PUBLIC funds, and then COULD USE THOSE PUBLIC FUNDS to lobby for ADDITIONAL PUBLIC FUNDS, again, and again, and AGAIN!
If you think the bail-out was a criminal offense the the American People, then YOU MUST, YOU CAN'T SUPPORT the concept of "Protected" corporate speech.
It is as simple as that.
Please, think of the ramifications and the horrors that would result when an already captive and corrupt system GETS TRUMPED buy and EVEN MORE POWERFUL and CORRUPT and CAPTIVE SYSTEM takes it's place.
Think about it."
And Finally, this partial quote by FRED:
"Interesting that Moyers' observation of the power of the Insurance arm of the FIRE Economy media to frame the health care debate is quickly sidetracked even here among the well informed iTulip readership by an argument about right versus left positions on the topic.
While we're arguing about that, as the member who posted this thread points out, the foundations of a corporate fascist state are being built."
That's the take away, sorry the lack of clarity on WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.
V/R
JT
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