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  • AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

    I always try to scan these for the nuggets of actual information he provides, frequently as the only source, and not the ideology. Today's nugget:

    Mr Cheng said China had lost 20m jobs as a result of the crisis and advised the West not to over-estimate the role that his country can play in global recovery.
    did you think your job loss was bad?

    The US Federal Reserve's policy of printing money to buy Treasury debt threatens to set off a serious decline of the dollar and compel China to redesign its foreign reserve policy, according to a top member of the Communist hierarchy.


    By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Cernobbio, Italy
    Published: 9:06PM BST 06 Sep 2009
    A worker smokes in front of a billboard featuring a US dollar banknote on a street in Taiyuan
    Working for the Yankee dollar: Beijing is said to be dismayed by the Fed's recourse to 'credit easing' Photo: Reuters

    Cheng Siwei, former vice-chairman of the Standing Committee and now head of China's green energy drive, said Beijing was dismayed by the Fed's recourse to "credit easing".

    "We hope there will be a change in monetary policy as soon as they have positive growth again," he said at the Ambrosetti Workshop, a policy gathering on Lake Como.




    "If they keep printing money to buy bonds it will lead to inflation, and after a year or two the dollar will fall hard. Most of our foreign reserves are in US bonds and this is very difficult to change, so we will diversify incremental reserves into euros, yen, and other currencies," he said.

    China's reserves are more than – $2 trillion, the world's largest.

    "Gold is definitely an alternative, but when we buy, the price goes up. We have to do it carefully so as not to stimulate the markets," he added.

    The comments suggest that China has become the driving force in the gold market and can be counted on to
    buy whenever there is a price dip, putting a floor under any correction.

    Mr Cheng said the Fed's loose monetary policy was stoking an unstable asset boom in China. "If we raise interest rates, we will be flooded with hot money. We have to wait for them. If they raise, we raise.

    "Credit in China is too loose. We have a bubble in the housing market and in stocks so we have to be very careful, because this could fall down."

    Mr Cheng said China had learned from the West that it is a mistake for central banks to target retail price inflation and take their eye off assets.

    "This is where Greenspan went wrong from 2000 to 2004," he said. "He thought everything was alright because inflation was low, but assets absorbed the liquidity."

    Mr Cheng said China had lost 20m jobs as a result of the crisis and advised the West not to over-estimate the role that his country can play in global recovery.

    China's task is to switch from export dependency to internal consumption, but that requires a "change in the ideology of the Chinese people" to discourage excess saving. "This is very difficult".

    Mr Cheng said the root cause of global imbalances is spending patterns in US (and UK) and China.

    "The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

    Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

    "He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

    It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

  • #2
    Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

    Gold buyers
    China's got your back!
    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

      "If we raise interest rates, we will be flooded with hot money. We have to wait for them. If they raise, we raise".

      Would someone explain "hot money" - I have heard the term before but don't understand what it means

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

        Basically, they don't want the RMB to rise because that'll stifle exports.

        These countries, Japan/China etc .. They beggar their neighbors with their low currencies.

        If they let their currencies appreciate, they wouldn't run into these problems.

        Which is exactly what Cheng is describing. Smart guy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

          Originally posted by rabot10 View Post
          "If we raise interest rates, we will be flooded with hot money. We have to wait for them. If they raise, we raise".

          Would someone explain "hot money" - I have heard the term before but don't understand what it means
          Wikipedia has a decent description of "hot money": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_money

          Basically, hot money comes from investors with lots of liquidity/$$$$ laying around. The money gets moved into countries with higher interest rates, increasing equities markets, or inflating real estate markets in order to get the higher rate of return. On the flip side, hot money flows can go in reverse like towards the end of 2008 when dollars were sucked out of emerging markets and back to the U.S. thereby strengthening the dollar, at least temporarily. In China, the speculation has been that hot money has been one of the driving forces behind the property bubble over there on the bet that the RMB will eventually be allowed to float and then rise in value. Obviously, much of this has been done under the radar and illegally since the Chinese government is very cognizant of how hot money can create market distortions and has had capital controls put in place as a result. I also recently read a piece (and a I can't remember where) by a couple of professors that surmised that China's net exports for the last couple of years had actually been negative and that the positive trade figures had been driven by Chinese companies laundering hot money flows into the country.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

            Originally posted by Mega View Post
            Gold buyers
            China's got your back!
            Mike
            Perhaps not. It is not in China's interest to keep the dollar price of gold up and to keep gold in our hands. It is in China's interest to keep the price down and to move gold into their hands.

            If I were China now, after this beautiful one and a half year inverted head and shoulders gold chart that looks so very bullish, I would pop-up the price just above $1000 or so, sucker those of us in who have been playing the short term moves to finally jump in, and then cram the price of gold down, below $920 or $880, scaring a bunch of recent gold converts out of the market. Pump and dump, with expectations of getting more after the dump, from weak and frightened hands.

            I'm sure such moves won't free any gold from the hands of EJ or jtabeb, but those of us who still partially view gold as just another trade are at risk of being taken to the cleaners, one more time.
            Most folks are good; a few aren't.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

              Originally posted by bcassill View Post
              Wikipedia has a decent description of "hot money": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_money

              Basically, hot money comes from investors with lots of liquidity/$$$$ laying around. The money gets moved into countries with higher interest rates, increasing equities markets, or inflating real estate markets in order to get the higher rate of return.
              Higher interest rates do NOT increase equity markets or inflate RE. Very much the opposite. They discourage investment in equities and real estate.

              They do, however, encourage investment in Currency which causes all sorts of problems for the Chinese who want to keep their economy growing. They may endlessly whinge about the US and their money printing, but for whatever reasons they keep buying debt endlessly in order to push their RMB down and make their exports competitive.

              You'll notice that Japan did the same thing and is now the second largest economy in the world.

              I guess it'll be India's turn after China?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                Thanks guys

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                  Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
                  Perhaps not. It is not in China's interest to keep the dollar price of gold up and to keep gold in our hands. It is in China's interest to keep the price down and to move gold into their hands.

                  If I were China now, after this beautiful one and a half year inverted head and shoulders gold chart that looks so very bullish, I would pop-up the price just above $1000 or so, sucker those of us in who have been playing the short term moves to finally jump in, and then cram the price of gold down, below $920 or $880, scaring a bunch of recent gold converts out of the market. Pump and dump, with expectations of getting more after the dump, from weak and frightened hands.

                  I'm sure such moves won't free any gold from the hands of EJ or jtabeb, but those of us who still partially view gold as just another trade are at risk of being taken to the cleaners, one more time.
                  That is just evil
                  Last edited by BDAdmin; September 08, 2009, 08:00 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                    Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
                    Perhaps not. It is not in China's interest to keep the dollar price of gold up and to keep gold in our hands. It is in China's interest to keep the price down and to move gold into their hands.

                    If I were China now, after this beautiful one and a half year inverted head and shoulders gold chart that looks so very bullish, I would pop-up the price just above $1000 or so, sucker those of us in who have been playing the short term moves to finally jump in, and then cram the price of gold down, below $920 or $880, scaring a bunch of recent gold converts out of the market. Pump and dump, with expectations of getting more after the dump, from weak and frightened hands.

                    I'm sure such moves won't free any gold from the hands of EJ or jtabeb, but those of us who still partially view gold as just another trade are at risk of being taken to the cleaners, one more time.
                    This bullish pattern now emerging in gold, I think, may be more of a result of the print-a-thon being held by the world's central banks, especially the Federal Reserve Bank of the U.S. under Bernanke, than any conspiracy by the Bank of China to pump-'n-dump the gold market, thus to set-up a bull-trap.

                    But we soon shall see how this turns-out. Yes, the gold canoe is very over-loaded and is being paddled-out into the unforgiving (39 degree F.) waters of Lake Superior. Gold is no buy, especially with prices worldwide going down.

                    As I said before, small tortillas in Watsonville, California now cost less than ONE CENT each. That's a message to me. Also, homes are almost unsaleable, and new cars are dirt cheap--- cheaper in real terms than I have ever seen them in my lifetime.
                    Last edited by Starving Steve; September 07, 2009, 04:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                      Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
                      Perhaps not. It is not in China's interest to keep the dollar price of gold up and to keep gold in our hands. It is in China's interest to keep the price down and to move gold into their hands.

                      If I were China now, after this beautiful one and a half year inverted head and shoulders gold chart that looks so very bullish, I would pop-up the price just above $1000 or so, sucker those of us in who have been playing the short term moves to finally jump in, and then cram the price of gold down, below $920 or $880, scaring a bunch of recent gold converts out of the market. Pump and dump, with expectations of getting more after the dump, from weak and frightened hands.

                      I'm sure such moves won't free any gold from the hands of EJ or jtabeb, but those of us who still partially view gold as just another trade are at risk of being taken to the cleaners, one more time.
                      Perhaps this depends on how badly China wants to get out of the dollar, and what they expect to happen in the US stock market.

                      If China fears a stock crash here, with money subsequently going into gold and driving up the price, they might decide they wouldn't have time for a successful pump and dump, so better start buying into gold now. Maybe they are more conservative than the Wall Street folks . . . . :confused:
                      raja
                      Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                        Originally posted by raja View Post
                        Perhaps this depends on how badly China wants to get out of the dollar, and what they expect to happen in the US stock market.

                        If China fears a stock crash here, with money subsequently going into gold and driving up the price, they might decide they wouldn't have time for a successful pump and dump, so better start buying into gold now. Maybe they are more conservative than the Wall Street folks . . . . :confused:
                        I presume that China has been buying real gold, not futures and paper promises, for a decade now. They may well be one of the causes for the rise of gold prices over the last decade. What they do this month or next is a tactical trading decision.

                        Also I do not see a strong correlation (negative or postive) between gold and stocks this last year or two. Sometimes it was dollar one way, the rest of the world the other way. At one point in the late 2008 crash, gold spiked, then it went right back down again.

                        After I made this prediction here of one more downward gold movement, two of the timing services I to which I subscribe both speculated that this could happen, one of them thinking it more than likely. They didn't blame it on China as I did; rather they were just reading their charts and various trading indicators.

                        The battery on my crystal ball is getting weak. Guess I should step aside and let reality speak for itself ;).
                        Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                          Originally posted by blazespinnaker View Post
                          They may endlessly whinge about the US and their money printing, but for whatever reasons they keep buying debt endlessly in order to push their RMB down and make their exports competitive.
                          I've always wondered why they don't just print RMB and buy real goods with them instead of buying Treasuries first. The RMB goes down and they also get real tangible goods. I know that the RMB isn't global and is controlled tightly by the Chinese. Do they not aggressively pursue this course because if the RMB is widely circulated they loose control of their currency and the speculators can have a field day? I guess all the recent trade agreements China has had is slowly sending them down this path. Can someone more wise than me on these matters please fill in the blanks?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: AEP -- China alarmed by US money printing

                            Well, their purpose is two fold.

                            First they want to keep the RMB/USD low. That requires printing RMB and using it to purchase USD. If the RMB started appreciating against the USD, then the US would stop importing Chinese goods and the Chinese economy would tank.

                            The question some people ask is why buy treasuries, why not buy other types of US equities. It's possible they've already started doing this. Maybe that's why the markets are recovering?

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