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  • gold and deflation, right vs wrong

    RIGHT:
    Deflation fare thee well – Part I: In search of real returns in an unreal world - Eric Janszen, may 2009

    Deflation spiral nipped in the bud


    So swift and extreme were the Fed’s printing and pumping operations that commodity prices barely registered half the price declines of the previous 2001 to 2002 disinflation cycle, despite a horrific demand crash that the FIRE Economy’s 2008 collapse produced.

    Deflation spiral fear mongers, who heckled us relentlessly since 2006, forecast collapsing commodity prices with apocalyptic flourish. Sell oil! Sell metals! Sell gold! The end is nigh!

    Even those who bought our argument for inflation as the eventual outcome of the central banks’ debt deflation battle hid behind forecasts over the past year for gold to correct to $600 or even $400 before rising again. These equivocal forecasts, while well meaning, caused investors to wait for a bottom-picking gold price correction that never came. Well-intentioned warnings that gold prices do correct 20% or more in the deflationary down drafts caused by normal economic corrections don’t fly in the kind of bull market in government folly that we are in today, that only occur once in a generation.

    Not only is the 28 year old FIRE Economy collapsing, the entire premise of more than 60 years of central banking has been called into question. Pity the average hard working American whose misguided faith in American market regulatory institutions cost them their retirement savings in the stock and housing markets. They ought to have at least some exposure to gold to hedge their remaining wealth against future losses created by the most concerted effort by government in history to wreck a great nation’s sovereign credit and currency. Hinting they should wait for a drastically cheaper price was unkind.

    Yes, the end was nigh in late 2008—the end of deflation, that is. No $400 gold or $20 oil as in 2002, even though this time around after the largest credit bubble in history collapsed global demand for commodities, unlike 2002. Commodities prices crashed, but recently they stopped falling, coincident with a lot of other changes. We think it’s because Bernanke in fact didn’t let “it” happen.
    WRONG

    Is The Economy Heading Into A Deflationary Spiral?

    One year ago, economists were worried about inflation. Now, they are worried about deflation — prices for everything from corn to soybeans to gold are falling. While it might seem like lower prices could be a good thing, unchecked deflation can bring economic activity to a standstill. Economists say the risks of deflation should not be ignored.



  • #2
    Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

    What's this? You're saying market speculators are wrong?

    Rate Hike Expectations Plunge From 58.1% To 1.5%; For First Time Ever, Some Anticipate A Negative Fed Fund Rate


    Currency Deflation Expectations FED Fed Fund Rate Federal Reserve System FOMC Inflation QE Survey Trade Treasuries

    Market speculators have now officially written off inflation: the most recent survey of Fed Fund Rate expectations indicates that the percentage of people expecting a hike to 0.5% at the December 16, 2009 FOMC meeting has plunged from 58.1% in March to 1.5% currently. And the opposite of inflation is deflation: just ask Treasuries. Furthermore, while exactly 0% had expected the EOY rate to be at 0% in March, almost a third of the market now believes this is the case. And, most shockingly, a solid 0.1% actually sees the Fed as having a negative 0.25% rate: whether this is a misprint based on futures data is unclear, however, it would be a very amusing outcome and with QE gradually ending, this may be the very, very last bullet in Chairman Ben's gun in his ongoing duel with the currency that he so desperately wants dead.

    Of course, deflation is bad for stocks, but good for computer prices. Soon HFTs will be able to purchase many more HAL9000 who will be the only one left to trade the S&P House of 500 Cards

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    • #3
      Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

      Originally posted by Chris View Post
      What's this? You're saying market speculators are wrong?
      what's with these zerohedge guys? betting the fed will hold interest rates down is inflationary not deflationary. am i missing something?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

        Originally posted by metalman View Post
        what's with these zerohedge guys? betting the fed will hold interest rates down is inflationary not deflationary. am i missing something?
        Hey I know you are smarter than the average bear but what the fu8k does that mean Metal?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

          Originally posted by rabot10 View Post
          Hey I know you are smarter than the average bear but what the fu8k does that mean Metal?
          'A glutton for punishment holds gold through a period of positive real and falling nominal interest rates, and a strengthening currency, such as occurred from 1980 to 2001. Conversely an investor will not be disappointed by holding gold through a period of negative real interest rates, and weakening currencies, such as from 1973 to 1980, and since 2001 until the meltdown in September 2008. Gold outperformed stocks during both periods. But explaining this requires that the journalist know something about interest rates, the dollar--and gold.' Catching a gold basher - Eric Janszen

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

            Originally posted by rabot10 View Post
            Hey I know you are smarter than the average bear but what the fu8k does that mean Metal?
            Metalman is right. The lower the interest rates, the more easily money flows into and through the banking system... a positive influence on inflation.

            The market however, looks at the Fed's action as a forecast. Not as a causative factor. Therefore the maintaining of lower interest rates by the Fed reveals the Fed's non-anticipation or non-forecast of inflation.

            The market then says "The Fed doesn't anticipate inflation" therefore, don't bet on inflation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

              Originally posted by metalman View Post
              what's with these zerohedge guys? betting the fed will hold interest rates down is inflationary not deflationary. am i missing something?
              The way I read that ZH article, the Fed wants inflation, might even go negative on its rates in a last desparate effort to get inflation, but will lose to the forces of deflation.

              So, yes, ZH agrees with you that the Fed holding down rates is inflationary.

              However ZH disagrees with you (and iTulip) as to whether the Fed will get the inflation it wants.
              Most folks are good; a few aren't.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

                Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
                The way I read that ZH article, the Fed wants inflation, might even go negative on its rates in a last desparate effort to get inflation, but will lose to the forces of deflation.

                So, yes, ZH agrees with you that the Fed holding down rates is inflationary.

                However ZH disagrees with you (and iTulip) as to whether the Fed will get the inflation it wants.
                chances zh will be wrong as every other deflationist for the past 36 years = 100%

                chances they will ever admit it = 0%.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

                  Originally posted by MarkL View Post
                  Metalman is right. The lower the interest rates, the more easily money flows into and through the banking system... a positive influence on inflation.

                  The market however, looks at the Fed's action as a forecast. Not as a causative factor. Therefore the maintaining of lower interest rates by the Fed reveals the Fed's non-anticipation or non-forecast of inflation.

                  The market then says "The Fed doesn't anticipate inflation" therefore, don't bet on inflation.
                  zh is making the classic newbie error... the fed doesn't give a rat's ass about commodity inflation so long as it isn't transmitted into wages by unions, min. wage laws, etc. wage deflation and asset price inflation are policy objectives. this is the oligarch's fed. oh, well. at least jesse gets it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

                    Originally posted by metalman View Post
                    'A glutton for punishment holds gold through a period of positive real and falling nominal interest rates, and a strengthening currency, such as occurred from 1980 to 2001. Conversely an investor will not be disappointed by holding gold through a period of negative real interest rates, and weakening currencies, such as from 1973 to 1980, and since 2001 until the meltdown in September 2008. Gold outperformed stocks during both periods. But explaining this requires that the journalist know something about interest rates, the dollar--and gold.' Catching a gold basher - Eric Janszen
                    Hey don't get excited just asking. Remember I know U and I think the world of you. Dont make me come up there and see you got it lol

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

                      Well I'm glad to see that this has all been settled.;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: gold and deflation, right vs wrong

                        Originally posted by rabot10 View Post
                        Hey don't get excited just asking. Remember I know U and I think the world of you. Dont make me come up there and see you got it lol
                        red bold lettering is excited? hey, you haven't seen me get really excited have you?

                        Comment

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