The Abyss

[charliebrown]

Re: The Abyss

believe me when I say this that I have great empathy for those who are down and out. I am barely hanging on to my good paying job. I fear the axe will fall, hopefully not at Christmas. I have family here. what if I do find that land of opportunity across the country, do I uproot my family, to go? My mother in law is disabled and we help her get by. Do I put her in a home? There goes all the money from my new job.

OK, here it goes. if person X as you mention decides to get that job instead of being on the dole, and if that job is not a gvt job of digging a hole and filling it up again, and if that job is building to better mouse trap, doesn't that lift all of society by a very small amount? And if X's job makes it possible for X2 to get a job, because company Y is now spending less on mouse traps, and X2 helps X3 and so on and so on. Isn't that the way it is supposed to work? I'm not saying that it is easy and that everyone can make it. I think we as American's have been spoiled over the last 50 years. Life is about to get a whole lot harder.

[bpr]

Re: The Abyss

Yes, sadly, this is being played out all over America. It sucks. I always wanted to live in a smaller city like this. But I knew the future was going to be better near a big city. Luckily I grew up in a small town near Atlanta, so I didn't have to move far away for a job. Actually, I passed up a shot at a better paying, easier job at a corporation when I got out of college because I didn't want to become a white collar drifter. I had too many roots here.

Thanks for your response and I want you to know that the bolded part (but the whole post, really) is extremely relevant to our times. Why did you want to live in a smaller town? What did you parents do for a living that was not available to you post-college in that smaller town?

All of my peers from high school are gone here, in the town I was raised in. They were gone ten years ago, and I came back here a few years ago.

I went away, too. But I came back at a time when it was beneficial to me.

My hometown is regularly cited as an example of poor financial health, poor physical health, and poor mental health. My parents live there, they are seventy and still working. You've heard of towns like this. Muncie, Indiana. Bakersfield, California.

Lots of poor people, not a lot of growth.

It's so F*ed up here that if I gave you a single word (The _____) you'd know what town I'm talking about. It's a national joke. Our insecurities, weaknesses and self-hatred is portrayed weekly as comedy for those that don't know what it's really like to live in a dying population with no industry.

There are opportunities in an area where the mean age is over 45, but they are extremely difficult emotionally. (I am seriously considering entering the funeral industry, for its demographic potential)

Now there's a whole generation of us that aren't sure what the * to do.

I have no reason to move to the financial centers, since they're blowing up, so I might as well take up my parents' industries and grow tomatoes.

Seriously, in my indutry it's getting weird.

This is the Abyss (capital A) for me.

And I'm not the only one.

I got lucky. I got into an industry that requires little education and pays well. And I worked for the FIRE elites, so I was paid exceptionally well, and read the BS I was sent, so I could see the writing on the wall, and didn't "buy" a house when I could...

I got real lucky, having xxxBank as a client. And xxBank. Those cats knew what was going on, and they told the institutional clients, but not the retail ones.

I know I got lucky because everyone I worked with had no idea this was coming. The two people (both big city transplants) I knew that had the best experience, the deepest roots in the big-business world I was in are now doing tattoo work on the side.

You all know their artwork, whether you're a wealthy investor from Singapore, or a poor unemployed slob watching the Simpsons, or a hotshot at the newest club in NYC.

Seriously. The guys that animated the cereal-pretzel mix you love so much, the guys that designed the hedge fund prospectuses, the guys that designed the interior of the nightclub at that hot nightclub last year... they are now doing tattoo work. And the guy that designed the globe on the monthly reports you've been receiving since 1995? He's a specialist...

He's specializing in bely-button tattoos!

Tattoos are more profitable than advertising for worldwide brands, and the world's best artists are moving from television to skin.

As an advertising professional, with a Fortune 500 client list, I'm starting to think that I need to focus more on "Mother" and hearts, and relinquish "sales" as a goal.

[Master Shake]

Re: The Abyss

Am I being dense, or isn't there a total quantity problem during an economic downturn? An individual might be able to find work by moving, but if the total number of job openings is significantly smaller than the total number of applicants, nationally, shuffling people around isn't going to change the net number of unemployed. The societal problem results from N% unemployment, rather than the situation of any individual. Any individual can solve their personal problem by moving somewhere and striving and finding themselves a job. But solving the individual problem doesn't solve the societal problem. Permanent enrollment on the public dole doesn't solve the societal problem, either. My point is the disconnect between the individual criticism that person X should be able to find employment if they are sufficiently enterprising, and the temptation to generalize and say that all individuals in situations similar to person X should be able to do so. Can't happen simultaneously unless there are more jobs. Better we should be arguing about what to do to create more jobs than how X people ought to compete to fill Y jobs, when Y< < X.

You are right, Ash: creating more jobs is the solution. My point, related to the article, is that if you live in a dying city where propects are bleak, maybe it's time to think about moving somewhere where they aren't as bad.

My point is the disconnect between the individual criticism that person X should be able to find employment if they are sufficiently enterprising, and the temptation to generalize and say that all individuals in situations similar to person X should be able to do so. Can't happen simultaneously unless there are more jobs.

I don't know if anyone is saying "should," but maybe they need to think about self-employment and do something until times get better to get by. I don't know. But staying in an extremely economically depressed area and wondering why you can't find a job doesn't seem like a good strategy.

[flintlock]

Re: The Abyss

BPR, I just like the small town lifestyle is all. I hate crowds, congestion. Just a personal thing. The town I grew up in was about 5000 people or so when I was young. Now it is closer to 200,000. As a suburb of Atlanta, the city came to us. So I merely moved out a bit farther. Now this area has become a bit urbanized as well. But I realize all that growth means people with money to spend.

When I was a kid in the 60s, my town reminded me of Mayberry on the Andy Griffith show. Everyone knew everyone else and it was a pleasant place. But I know those days are gone, even in rural areas, as jobs have left, and govt assistance has replaced any real economy in many of those towns. My mother was from a small manufacturing town. Now days? Talk about depressing. Small town life is not what it used to be. So I'm fairly content living on the fringes of the urban area, though suburban life can be quite bland and dull at times. Nauseating even.

I was talking to a RE agent I work with a lot yesterday. Seems her husband was let go from his job as a regional manager of an advertising company. Then my best friends wife emailed me to let me know her husband was fired from his general manager job. Apparently he's too depressed to tell me himself.

[ASH]

Re: The Abyss

OK, here it goes. if person X as you mention decides to get that job instead of being on the dole, and if that job is not a gvt job of digging a hole and filling it up again, and if that job is building to better mouse trap, doesn't that lift all of society by a very small amount? And if X's job makes it possible for X2 to get a job, because company Y is now spending less on mouse traps, and X2 helps X3 and so on and so on. Isn't that the way it is supposed to work? I'm not saying that it is easy and that everyone can make it. I think we as American's have been spoiled over the last 50 years. Life is about to get a whole lot harder.

Well, at least that's how I think it is supposed to work. I think this goes back to all the stuff that Chris Coles says about putting capital in the hands of people who will use it for innovative purposes, as opposed to mal-investment chasing paper gains in asset prices. My understanding is that we have to clear the debt first, too.

[Verrocchio]

Re: The Abyss

I learned how to strip my AK-74 on youtube. Youtube is awesome.

New, improved model? :rolleyes:

[Verrocchio]

Re: The Abyss -- Out of Work, and Too Down to Search On

Out of Work, and Too Down to Search On



“You send out so much, and you don’t get responses. Then when you get called in, you’re treated like you’re too old.” RAY RUCKER, a 62-year-old former facilities manager from Overland Park, Kan.

See the New York Times article here. The article goes through the various types of unemployed and how the BLS counts them. Contributes to this discussion by providing insight into how repeated failures in the search for a job can affect the outlook of the unemployed. Suggests to me that it is hard to imagine the corrosive effect of failed job searches on the spirit.