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  • The Abyss

    With millions poised to exhaust their unemployment benefits in the coming months, the future does look grim for many. A story out of Elkhart, IN puts a face on many of those who have been hit by the economic downturn:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32555445...khart_project/

    Some of the faces include:

    Karen Inbody has just about three weeks to figure out Plan B.
    The 58-year-old divorcee has been getting by on unemployment compensation since her layoff in early 2008, but she’s nearly reached the end of her benefits.
    And even though she's applied for dozens of jobs, the former rental property manager has come up empty.
    “I’d shovel horse poop,” she says wearily. “I haven’t even found one of those jobs available.”
    Now, like many others whose unemployment benefits are running out, the Elkhart, Ind., native doesn’t know how she’s going to put food on her table and pay her mortgage.


    or how about


    Elkhart resident Tim White, who was laid off from a $10 per hour job at a laminates factory last year, saw his final unemployment check in mid-July.
    Tim White's unemployment benefits expired in July. Even though he previously earned about $10 per hour at a laminates factory, he says he'd take anything now.
    Now the 42-year-old father earns $25 a week mowing a friend’s lawn — enough to cover gas for his '97 Jeep Cherokee so he can drive around to look for jobs. He says he applies anywhere they are accepting applications – McDonald’s, Jiffy Lube, KFC, or Goodwill — to name just a few.
    "I don't care if it's a minimum wage job,” he says. “It's better than nothing.”
    For lodging, White and his wife, Prima, and their 13-year-old daughter, Kelly, have been getting by with the help of a relative who lets them live rent-free. The family also started receiving food stamps worth about $300 a month in August.
    White’s wife is in poor health and takes medications for high blood pressure diabetes and other problems. He is tormented by the prospect she could have a medical emergency with no health insurance.
    "Health care coverage we worry about every day," he said.



    or better still


    Vicki McGlinsey, who was laid off last year from a printing company that served the RV industry, says she was one of 10 people who made the final round of interviews for a security position offered at Wal-Mart in July. The manager who broke the news that she wouldn’t get the job told her they received more than 250 applications.
    “I myself have put in about 100 applications and résumés since February … and have had three interview opportunities, including this one,” she says. “It boggles my mind when I hear people say we just need to try harder.”



    So, what do we do with people who want to work, but can't find it? Who burn through personal savings after the benefits run out in an effort to stay in their homes and pay for health insurance? Who are tossed out onto the street to live out of a tent or a box?



    Welcome to the New America. With unemployment expected to remain in the double digits for years to come, stories like these will become more common. So will the visceral anger against those who profited while driving the American economy over the edge and into the abyss. A good politician will do whatever they can to save their own skin even if they have to throw a few of the worst ones under the bus. Get ready. The show is about to start.
    Last edited by bcassill; August 28, 2009, 02:03 PM.

  • #2
    Re: The Abyss

    Originally posted by bcassill View Post


    So, what do we do with people who want to work, but can't find it? Who burn through personal savings after the benefits run out in an effort to stay in their homes and pay for health insurance? Who are tossed out onto the street to live out of a tent or a box?


    Welcome to the New America. With unemployment expected to remain in the double digits for years to come, stories like these will become more common. So will the visceral anger against those who profited while driving the American economy over the edge and into the abyss. A good politician will do whatever they can to save their own skin even if they have to throw a few of the worst ones under the bus. Get ready. The show is about to start.
    Maybe they should move from Elkhart, IN? Not trying to be cold-hearted, but if there are no jobs there, move to where the prospects are better.
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Abyss

      Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
      Maybe they should move from Elkhart, IN? Not trying to be cold-hearted, but if there are no jobs there, move to where the prospects are better.
      By definition your libertarian attitude is cold hearted. There is no room in the philosophy for actually helping people; only room for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and "work harder".

      Unfortunately, many people have no bootstraps.

      How the hell is someone supposed to get up and move somewhere else if they are unemployed and have family dependent upon them? Moving costs money; we're talking here about people who are scraping by for gas money just to get around in town (though my first thought was, they should be riding a bike!).

      The problem with the extreme libertarian philosophy is that it assumes hard work == productivity == reward. Period.

      Fundamentalist libertarianism doesn't factor in the inconvenient fact that life often doesn't work in such a linear fashion. That people can work hard and smartly, and still end up in a lousy situation from which there is little apparent exit. That people sometimes need help. That being in trouble <> ("is not equal to") moral failure.

      It is a very idealistic, Darwinian philosophy that ignores what separates us from the apes in the first place: our ability to form complex societies where we help and support one another to achieve greater common good.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Abyss

        They are going to continually extend benefits. When it comes to the US, defecits don't matter.

        Free money for everyone. It's good for consumer spending, good for GDP, good for the economy.

        We're just going to keep printing that shit up.

        Because at the end of the day, no one's going to stop us. If they had the balls, they would have already done it by now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Abyss

          Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
          Maybe they should move from Elkhart, IN? Not trying to be cold-hearted, but if there are no jobs there, move to where the prospects are better.
          I agree. A sense of survival should apply to all aspects in life. Not just location. I imagine they couldnt live rent free without the help of a relative (as stated) so I imagine that is why they havent moved yet. However, I would be trying to do some self training in my spare time (say at night when all the places are closed that you are applying for).

          I feel bad for unskilled labor, they are necessary. But from my own perspective, I think they are lying to themselves when they think that they have done everything they have to find employment. There's plenty of places out there that need help doing *something*. It's just finding the right people for the job.
          Every interest bearing loan is mathematically impossible to pay back.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Abyss

            I just looked at base metal prices, and I got a reality shock:

            nickel closing-in toward $20,000 per tonne;
            copper well over $6,000 per tonne, on the way to maybe $7,000 per tonne next;
            zinc nearing $2,000 per tonne.

            I can see the future in California and maybe elsewhere in America: The drug gangs might next expand out of drug-trafficing and move toward the industry of stripping wiring, pipes, metal sinks, etc. out of vacant and unsold homes.

            While one might be thinking about what an old penny or nickel could be instrinsically worth in metal, the old drug gangs might be thinking about what a neighbourhood of vacant/unsold houses could be intrinsically worth. And then there are light-poles outside and bridge guard-rails, buried copper pipes to serve the neighbourhood; the opportunities are endless!
            Last edited by Starving Steve; August 28, 2009, 02:34 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Abyss

              I have to admit my first reaction was also that they should leave Elkhart.

              But that is not always as easy as it sounds. Most people don't realize what it is like to be scraping change out of the car console in order to eat. I have known people like this.

              Yes, this is the price of yacking it up in class instead of paying attention. The long nights partying instead of studying for that test. But it is also the result of not learning how to think outside of the box and become self-sufficient. They sit around watching Oprah and churning out "resumes" that frankly don't have much of anything worth putting on them anyway. Waiting for someone to "give" them a job. Instead they should be trying to think of a business, a service, anything that would allow them to make a few dollars and might even lead to something bigger. We all have skills. Like the guy who cuts his friends grass for $25 week. Has he tried soliciting others to do the same?

              Being in a construction related industry, I know quite a few people out of work. Those eligible for unemployment are mostly sitting on their butts waiting for a job that ain't coming back. Those who are not eligible are scraping together enough work on their own to get by. They are the ones who will make it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Abyss

                Originally posted by mcgurme View Post
                By definition your libertarian attitude is cold hearted. There is no room in the philosophy for actually helping people; only room for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and "work harder".

                Unfortunately, many people have no bootstraps.

                How the hell is someone supposed to get up and move somewhere else if they are unemployed and have family dependent upon them? Moving costs money; we're talking here about people who are scraping by for gas money just to get around in town (though my first thought was, they should be riding a bike!).

                The problem with the extreme libertarian philosophy is that it assumes hard work == productivity == reward. Period.

                Fundamentalist libertarianism doesn't factor in the inconvenient fact that life often doesn't work in such a linear fashion. That people can work hard and smartly, and still end up in a lousy situation from which there is little apparent exit. That people sometimes need help. That being in trouble <> ("is not equal to") moral failure.

                It is a very idealistic, Darwinian philosophy that ignores what separates us from the apes in the first place: our ability to form complex societies where we help and support one another to achieve greater common good.

                Here's a ratio I'd like to see: How many hardworking, dumb slobs does it take to support one libertarian world view? Bet it's quite a few.

                Think there's many libertarians in Zimbabwe? How about Haiti? Palestine?

                Libertarianism, a lovely intellectual construct, is a first world luxury, closely aligned with first world entrepreneurial enterprise. There's plenty of the latter in the Third World but without the ideological edifice. More survival motivated, I would think.

                Under "normal" USA economic conditions, approximately 5% of the American workforce is self-employed. If you have ever been one, pining for more members to join you in carving out a viable niche is not on your wish list.

                Be grateful for the other 95%. They allow Johnny the opportunity to see what he can do.

                Throwing the libertarian blanket over any and all social ills is a wet blankey indeed ;)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Abyss - slight correction (nothing personal )

                  "Unfortunately, many people have no bootstraps. "

                  Actually, they have no boots (or any sort of foot covering)

                  Brian P

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Abyss

                    These stories are hard to read. The psychic damage done to someone who drops several rungs on the economic ladder is huge. Much like you hear stories about how older peoples life styles was shaped by the great depression. These people and their children will have some emotional scars because of the way society feels about income.

                    There are always a few threads here going on at the same time regarding the trip down the economic ladder. We forget and don't often post these kinds of stories.

                    "Hunt, Fish, Feed" Program Helping Homeless Women

                    http://kdka.com/local/homeless.sport...2.1147878.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Abyss

                      Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                      I can see the future in California and maybe elsewhere in America: The drug gangs might next expand out of drug-trafficing and move toward the industry of stripping wiring, pipes, metal sinks, etc. out of vacant and unsold homes.
                      Too much like work, easier selling drugs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Abyss

                        Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                        Maybe they should move from Elkhart, IN? Not trying to be cold-hearted, but if there are no jobs there, move to where the prospects are better.
                        It takes money to relocate, and most employers (outside of the highly skilled industries) are looking for local applicants only. These folks are in their 40s and 50s; even if it were easy to liquidate everything (which probably isn't much in monetary terms), there is no sure bet that they would find jobs elsewhere.

                        So, they should sell everything they own and move to where the jobs are (where is that, exactly?), where the cost of living is likely higher (thus raising their debt burden), then start applying for jobs that may or may not be there?

                        Ever read The Grapes of Wrath?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Abyss

                          I know how they feel. I know how Elkhart Indiana feels... and yes, people will move. Eventually. But right now there isn't much in the way of going enterprise to flee to.

                          When I was a teen in the 80s appalachian coal collapse there were places to run. And many of us had to move of necessity. It destroyed an entire, and unique, culture. Will it recover? Maybe, but there are very noticeable age gaps in the demography. It is what you might imagine the world would look like 20 years after a disease wiped out 2/3 of the working adults.

                          I don't have a problem with helping folks. I gotta tell you, the time has long since passed when we could avoid many problems. And if things continue on we'll have to start making very difficult decisions.

                          And that's where I am at and why I am so intolerable to my conservative friends. I don't want to hear their crap about Obama-care and socialism after they sat on their hands and watched the bankers swindle the next generation out of Trillions USD. Literally. I have no patience for it.

                          Hell I know we can't afford it. But what in the world does it say about our country and its culture when we stood idly by and allowed the next generation to be swindled and only got riled up when we started talking about universal health coverage?

                          These people are desperate. Many of them are tired and pissed off and have done nothing at all to cause this mess and yet are being destroyed by it. And all the while those who did cause the problem just enjoyed a record bonus year on Wall Street... by God if I was 19 again I'd start a revolution. :p

                          Will

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Abyss

                            Yes it is hard to read. I know a lot of people out of work or at least very seriously under-employed.

                            I've been trying to help as much as I can( my business is off also). I've been having business cards made up for guys I know in the trades. Guys trying to scrounge up odd jobs to do. Its very cheap to do online, and I know these guys don't even have internet access, so I just had some made and started handing out the cards to my customers or neighbors.

                            I had my house painted about a year earlier than I planned to in order to give a painter buddy something to do last December in the dead of winter when he literally didn't have money to buy gas to get home. Now he's back on his feet and doing okay.

                            I think we can all reach out and try to help in our own little way. Sometimes people just need a little help and they'll be okay.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Abyss

                              Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                              Yes it is hard to read. I know a lot of people out of work or at least very seriously under-employed.

                              I've been trying to help as much as I can( my business is off also). I've been having business cards made up for guys I know in the trades. Guys trying to scrounge up odd jobs to do. Its very cheap to do online, and I know these guys don't even have internet access, so I just had some made and started handing out the cards to my customers or neighbors.

                              I had my house painted about a year earlier than I planned to in order to give a painter buddy something to do last December in the dead of winter when he literally didn't have money to buy gas to get home. Now he's back on his feet and doing okay.

                              I think we can all reach out and try to help in our own little way. Sometimes people just need a little help and they'll be okay.

                              That is great. And you are so right, we can all help in our own little way.

                              Comment

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