Neo-Libs on their last legs

[ASH]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

Some would argue that things like health care, education, clean air, clean water, police protection ... should not be dependent on a benefit package from your employer, but rather should be a benefit of living in a civilized and intelligent culture.

Indeed some would, but that is different than accusing this veteran of hypocrisy within his own system of values. It isn't hypocritical to accept an earned benefit from the government while complaining that government ought not to provide the same benefits to citizens who do nothing to earn the benefit.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

Indeed some would, but that is different than accusing this veteran of hypocrisy within his own system of values. It isn't hypocritical to accept an earned benefit from the government while complaining that government ought not to provide the same benefits to citizens who do nothing to earn the benefit.

To deny members of a society a necessity in which that very same society is providing to you, is selfish at best, and I think more than a bit hypocritical. The idea that the necessities needed to live in a civilized culture should be doled out by the government as benefits to those it employs or chooses to be worthy enough, is a 3rd world concept that I hope our society would reject. Police protection, fire protection, education, the use of highways... only for those who've "earned" the benefit from the government?;)

[Ghent12]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

To deny members of a society a necessity in which that very same society is providing to you, is selfish at best, and I think more than a bit hypocritical. The idea that the necessities needed to live in a civilized culture should be doled out by the government as benefits to those it employs or chooses to be worthy enough, is a 3rd world concept that I hope our society would reject. Police protection, fire protection, education, the use of highways... only for those who've "earned" the benefit from the government?;)

You're missing the point with this axe grinding. It's not about denial or access, it's about subsidy through theft/tax.

[bobola]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

To deny members of a society a necessity in which that very same society is providing to you, is selfish at best, and I think more than a bit hypocritical. The idea that the necessities needed to live in a civilized culture should be doled out by the government as benefits to those it employs or chooses to be worthy enough, is a 3rd world concept that I hope our society would reject. Police protection, fire protection, education, the use of highways... only for those who've "earned" the benefit from the government?;)

"When Bibaldo Rueda discovered his house was ablaze, he thought the firefighters who responded would put out the fire. Only then did he learn that the Monett, MO
fire department only serves individuals who paid membership dues. Rueda offered to pay, but he was told that the department has no policy for "on-the-spot billing.
" State law permits rural membership fire departments to put out fires and then bill the occupant after the fact, but nobody mentioned that to Rueda. Instead, the
firefighters stood around and watched as Rueda was burned while he tried to fight the fire himself with a garden hose.

Responding to Rueda's complaint that he should have been notified that his taxes don't pay for fire protection, Monett Rural Fire Department Chief Ronnie Myers
"said he would make an effort to explain the membership policy to the area's new Hispanic residents."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/02/17/447/48232

[flintlock]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

"When Bibaldo Rueda discovered his house was ablaze, he thought the firefighters who responded would put out the fire. Only then did he learn that the Monett, MO
fire department only serves individuals who paid membership dues. Rueda offered to pay, but he was told that the department has no policy for "on-the-spot billing.
" State law permits rural membership fire departments to put out fires and then bill the occupant after the fact, but nobody mentioned that to Rueda. Instead, the
firefighters stood around and watched as Rueda was burned while he tried to fight the fire himself with a garden hose.

Responding to Rueda's complaint that he should have been notified that his taxes don't pay for fire protection, Monett Rural Fire Department Chief Ronnie Myers
"said he would make an effort to explain the membership policy to the area's new Hispanic residents."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/02/17/447/48232

I wasn't aware that private fire departments for hire existed. Interesting.

What do they do when a non-paying house right next to a paying house catches fire? Let it burn and they both go. :eek:

[ASH]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

To deny members of a society a necessity in which that very same society is providing to you, is selfish at best, and I think more than a bit hypocritical.

Do you see no distinction between earning a necessity as compensation versus being provided a necessity as an entitlement, or do you simply disapprove of those who differ with you philosophically as to whether need alone entitles someone to something that requires the labor and property of others to provide? I think it's quite clear that you don't agree with that individual about to whom the government should provide medical benefits, and by what standard of merit. However, as I understand the term, "hypocrisy" is when someone is inconsistent within their own principles. I still feel that you are evaluating this person's standpoint relative to your principles, and therefore ought not to call him a hypocrite.

The idea that the necessities needed to live in a civilized culture should be doled out by the government as benefits to those it employs or chooses to be worthy enough, is a 3rd world concept that I hope our society would reject. Police protection, fire protection, education, the use of highways... only for those who've "earned" the benefit from the government?;)

As with any public service provided or paid for by the government, citizens are going to disagree about "what services should be provided to all?", "what level of service should be provided?", and "who pays?". If we can't continue adding services on credit, who pays and how much service to provide will become increasingly contentious issues. Have you devised a practical budgetary and tax proposal that provides the level of services you think just? If I were to attempt such an exercise, I would probably decrease the total level of health benefits provided as unearned entitlements, and reallocate some of the current spending on the elderly (Medicare) to preventive medicine and routine health maintenance spending on the young and the poor. But I only get one vote. And very few yet realize that we can't actually pay for unlimited benefits for all, because they are used to unlimited public credit.

[ASH]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

I wasn't aware that private fire departments for hire existed. Interesting.

What do they do when a non-paying house right next to a paying house catches fire? Let it burn and they both go. :eek:

I think the neighbor effect is one of the main reasons we developed publically-funded fire departments. Perhaps in a rural setting, where houses are separated by larger distances, there is less of a motive for a communal arrangement.

[dummass]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

Ha ha, what a redneck!
The crazy truth is that it is exactly these rednecks that have no health insurance and lose thier teeth by the time they at 30. but it is thier choice! LOL.

Tooth loss is the result of a poor diet, not the lack of health care. Prior to the introduction of processed foods and sugar, humans did not experience tooth decay. The dental industry is completely unnecessary. Ignorance is also unnecessary. Excellent information is available on this subject if you know where to look for it. Inform yourself. :cool:

http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

[ASH]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

The dental industry is completely unnecessary.

Unless you think, as I do, that refined sugar is a necessity. ;)

[flintlock]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

Unless you think, as I do, that refined sugar is a necessity. ;)

My wife sure does!

[flintlock]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

If I were to attempt such an exercise, I would probably decrease the total level of health benefits provided as unearned entitlements, and reallocate some of the current spending on the elderly (Medicare) to preventive medicine and routine health maintenance spending on the young and the poor. But I only get one vote. And very few yet realize that we can't actually pay for unlimited benefits for all, because they are used to unlimited public credit.

Pretty much exactly what I would do. More preventative care is needed. I mean, how many people are laying in a nursing home bed paid for by the government because they felt they couldn't afford a trip to the doctor to get a $5 month blood pressure pill that may have avoided the stroke that put them there? A lot of people are afraid of doctors, and the high cost these days gives them enough of a reason to avoid going.

[a warren]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

My perspective on that is that medical care is one of the forms of compensation our servicemembers receive. Someone who receives a benefit that is payment for services rendered is different from someone who receives a benefit gratis. Or don't you agree?

What is a servicemember?

[ASH]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

What is a servicemember?

In the United States, a servicemember is a member of the armed services: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard. It used to be "servicemen", but there are plenty of women who serve, so now it is "servicemember."

[a warren]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

In the United States, a servicemember is a member of the armed services: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard. It used to be "servicemen", but there are plenty of women who serve, so now it is "servicemember."

Do they serve, or are they just paid to do a job just like anyone else? If they actually serve, presumably that would mean serve the interests of the USA. So if they really wanted to serve they would have refused to go to Iraq and Vietnam, no?

[rjwjr]

Re: Neo-Libs on their last legs

This sort of reminds me of the tactic that the Republicans used in the years after the Civil War to garner votes. It was called the "Bloody Shirt" trick. You find some suitable prop of a shirt, put a couple of holes in it with some red dye, and use it in front of the crowds telling them it belonged to old Joe or whomever who died fighting the Confederacy. Voila, instant patriotism. It was complete nonsense, but the voters loved it and kept the Republicans in power for many years as a result.

LOL, what is the name of your history book of reference for that stellar piece of historical bullshit? You don't think that maybe the ending of slavery and keeping the United States united, under the leadership of one of our greatest Presidents in history, had a little more to do with earning votes for the Republicans of that era than this supposed "bloody shirt" trick? Please don't try to sway the argument with intellectual dishonesty.