Americans taking up arms against their government

[Raz]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

I have no problem with the peoples' right to bear arms, in fact that right is invaluable in safeguarding the people against a Hitler in America, or wherever.

What I do NOT like is gun-toting, gun-flaunting, guns in purses, guns in clothes, hand-guns being brought into big cities like New York City, guns being brought to public meetings, guns in office buildings, etc. I also do NOT like hand-gun sales in big cities, especially cities over-run with crime and drive-by shootings.

Also, hunting makes no sense at all to me unless someone is truly starving and needs food. Why kill animals?

One good thing about East Sooke, BC: the animals run the place. The big bears walk around on two legs, just like people. Cougars sleep at my door-step. And under my deck, sometimes a racoon makes its den, depending upon the weather.... The animals like the peace. The people like the animals. It's great living, for everyone.

Steve, I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading - I agree with your entire post!

Your new meds are working wonders!

[ricket]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

That "spark" will be the failure of not extending UE benefits. That is the mistake that the USG cannot afford to make.

People just fail to grasp how violent this Country will be at 25 percent U-6.

I think the "spark" will be much more blatant than that. U-6 is just more kindling for the real spark to come later. What do you think would happen if a nutjob with a racist agenda succeeds in an assassination attempt? I think that if one wanted to send this country into chaos overnight, that just might do the trick.

Disclaimer: I have no inclination/idea/intelligence or anything otherwise that would suggest I am involved or anyone I know is involved in any plot, real or imagined at this time or any time in the near future. I am only offering speculation as to what such a "spark" would look like.

[t12357]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

What about another "false flag" as a catalyst for the "spark"?

But if you have done nothing wrong you do not have to worry, right?

[jtabeb]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

Also, hunting makes no sense at all to me unless someone is truly starving and needs food. Why kill animals?
.

Ahem!, You are of course a vegitarian or a vegan right? And never eat meat, right?

(Because if you eat meat, I have to tell you, I'm sorry but that animal was KILLED so that you could consume its flesh)

I have no problem if you're argument is logically consistent (you don't eat meat) but if you do, please think about where your meat comes from before making moral judgments about those that procure their own meat.

That's all I ask. Ok?

Disclaimer: I grew up on a farm and had to slaughter and butcher each animal that we ate. You know what, I don't waste food, EVER because of that experience. If you consume meat, someone is responsible for slaughtering it and butchering it, your are not absolved simple because you "only eat it". So to all the veggies and vegans out there, my hat's off to you! You lead a disciplined and principled life.

To all the meat eaters out there, look yourself in the mirror and ask if you know where your meat comes from and how it makes it's way to you.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

Ahem!, You are of course a vegitarian or a vegan right? And never eat meat, right?

(Because if you eat meat, I have to tell you, I'm sorry but that animal was KILLED so that you could consume its flesh)

I have no problem if you're argument is logically consistent (you don't eat meat) but if you do, please think about where your meat comes from before making moral judgments about those that procure their own meat.

That's all I ask. Ok?

I eat trout or chicken at least once a week. Most of what I eat is fresh fruit, re-fried non-fat bean burritos, spaghetti with rich tomato sauce, whole-grain bread, and oat-bran pancakes with real maple syrup from Quebec. I also eat lettuces of all colours and types with a Greek feta or Italian dressing or vinegarette. For beverages, I drink coffee with skim milk as a creamer, also plain tea..... Once in a while, I do eat some BBQ beef or ribs, but that stuff is not healthy to eat. It's a treat.

My weight is very low, even dropping slightly in recent years. So this kind of diet pays big heart dividends thru a lifetime, and I have eaten this way all of my life.

I wish I were a vegetarian, but I am not. I do eat fish and chicken, so I am a hypocrit of a sort for having trout or chicken killed. But eating anything means something has to die, either plant or animal.... That is just the nature of the real world we were born into.

Yes, I am on medications to prevent seizures. The seizures are to treat cerebral palsy which I have had from birth. Yes, the medications do cause problems with dizzyness, and yes, the seizures destroy short-term memory. Later on, especially with thin people, this cerebral palsy can turn into alzeimer's disease. ("House of pain.")

I eat tonnes of food, but I still barely can keep the weight steady. Yes, I do exercise all day to stay reasonably fit.... A good rule-of-thumb is to try to do everything the hard way, including take the stairs and park as far as you can from the door of the store.

But the lesson for everyone is that a low fat, high fiber, whole grain diet, even eating spaghetti is very healthy. A pure vegetarian diet might be even healthier..... Yes, you can eat all day, but eat in moderation, of course.

For butter, I use light olive oil or canola oil, especially the former. Real butter is fine too, but use it very sparingly.

Forget about drinking sodas. Drink skim milk, coffee, tea, red wine, even beer, but cut-out the sodas, for sure. Drink plenty of water all day.

Forget about potato chips and junk food, of course. Just one large soda per day equals 91,000 calories per year.

Keep moving around, keep walking and using your body. Do everything "the hard way", and you will stay thin, for sure.

Fat people are what they eat. And fat people, by their nature, do everything energy-efficiently. They conserve calories.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

While I think Starving Steve is entitled to his opinion, I disagree.

I'm with jtabeb.

I eat meat.....and I enjoy hunting.......in fact I'm 6 weeks out from tracking, stalking, and eating game in Africa....something I am very much looking forward to!

In all honesty, I have eaten few things as tasty as venison steaks after carrying them through several vertical kilometers of the Southern Alps.

Besides the opportunity to personally collect your own healthy and tasty food rather than having someone else do the dirty work, hunting can provide an opportunity to effectively manage wild herds......while the likes of PETA would prefer we don't even kill flies, they completely neglect to cover the horrific downside of a habitat unable to sustain a given population....the results can be quite nasty......ethical hunting can be quite humane compared to the alternative.

I have mixed feelings about firearms.......

I strongly support the right to own firearms and to use them in justified defense of self and others where legal.

If the US could get a "do over" I would likely encourage far stricter control on handguns, but leave longs as is.....unfortunately if any stricter control on handguns were to be made I believe it could be many decades before any chance of a significant improvement in unjustified firearms violence was achieved.

Personally, I think it is worth noting the fact that states possessing high firearms ownership and right to carry firearms legally also possess less firearms crime than their peer states.

When it comes to dense urban populations I think it has more to do with those old studies of rats where left to their own devices and with plentiful food/water will eventually overpopulate and lead to conflict.

That's why I enjoy living in a smaller, and less dense urban area surrounded by outdoor pursuits.

[Raz]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

While I think Starving Steve is entitled to his opinion, I disagree.

I'm with jtabeb.

I eat meat.....and I enjoy hunting.......in fact I'm 6 weeks out from tracking, stalking, and eating game in Africa....something I am very much looking forward to!

In all honesty, I have eaten few things as tasty as venison steaks after carrying them through several vertical kilometers of the Southern Alps.

Besides the opportunity to personally collect your own healthy and tasty food rather than having someone else do the dirty work, hunting can provide an opportunity to effectively manage wild herds......while the likes of PETA would prefer we don't even kill flies, they completely neglect to cover the horrific downside of a habitat unable to sustain a given population....the results can be quite nasty......ethical hunting can be quite humane compared to the alternative.

I have mixed feelings about firearms.......

I strongly support the right to own firearms and to use them in justified defense of self and others where legal.

If the US could get a "do over" I would likely encourage far stricter control on handguns, but leave longs as is.....unfortunately if any stricter control on handguns were to be made I believe it could be many decades before any chance of a significant improvement in unjustified firearms violence was achieved.

Personally, I think it is worth noting the fact that states possessing high firearms ownership and right to carry firearms legally also possess less firearms crime than their peer states.

When it comes to dense urban populations I think it has more to do with those old studies of rats where left to their own devices and with plentiful food/water will eventually overpopulate and lead to conflict.

That's why I enjoy living in a smaller, and less dense urban area surrounded by outdoor pursuits.

I don't think Steve was condemning the use of animals for food, and I certainly wasn't. I eat quite a lot of fish, and some poultry, but not much. I don't eat red meat of any kind, and about half of the year both my wife and I eat a pretty strict vegan diet.

PETA people want an equal rights amendment for animals, even allowing them to sue American humans in court. (Will the animals retain counsel or represent themselves?). I'll leave it to you to judge their mental capacity, but I will say that anyone who truly believes thus probably shouldn't have a driver's license. Be that as it may, I don't believe we should kill animals for the sole and singular purpose of mounting their heads on our walls. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I'm not going to change my mind.

PS to Steve: I truly didn't know you were on medication; I was simply being a smart-ass. Sorry.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

- I am no fan of any militia or violence of any kind - violence solves nothing - but that said -

Violence has been the primary force that has shaped world history since civilization began. Considering how overpopulation is the primary cause for practically every problem that presently affects the world, violence is undoubtedly the simplest solution to many problems. I am not saying it is the most ethical solution, but it is incorrect to say that "violence solves nothing".

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

But the lesson for everyone is that a low fat, high fiber, whole grain diet, even eating spaghetti is very healthy. A pure vegetarian diet might be even healthier..... Yes, you can eat all day, but eat in moderation, of course.

For butter, I use light olive oil or canola oil, especially the former. Real butter is fine too, but use it very sparingly.

Forget about drinking sodas. Drink skim milk, ...

If this were my diet, I'd consider more quality (not pasteurized, homogenized, skimmed, industrialized) fats and oils. Whole raw milk, coconut and macadamia nut oils, Carlson's cod liver oil, fresh flax or chia seed oil, ... these are all valuable nutrition.

I include canola oil on my list of undesirable junk, along with chips and sodas, high fructose corn syrup and most ingredients that require a chemistry degree to pronounce.

Also as rogermexico discussed on his PaNu - The paleolithic nutrition argument clinic thread in May 2009, wheat and grains may be a food that should be taken in more limited quantities.

[thunderdownunder]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

This thread is not about diet guys. But for the record I eat anything sparingly. I am a crack shot but gave up hunting 30 years ago. I own some fine shooting implements that are used in big bore and clay target and I compete through the Sporting shooters association at Belmont range- Carindale, Brisbane.

Do you realize that the People (not the Government) of the USA are held in the highest regard. The people are your strength - Hospitable, open, Hard working, innovative, diverse, friendly, Slow to anger, accommodating, moral, sensitive, grounded, helpful and fun to be with. I love them for it. The World without the USA would be a very empty and unsafe place.
The World owes you a debt not measured in dollars and I am sure if push came to shove you would not be friendless. You have your problems, yes, but I cannot perceive of anything that would separate you from your love of freedom because its not in your nature to create civil disobedience. That does not make you Sheeple it makes you excellent. You have a young President who I had hoped would change your government for the better but I guess both he and the rest of us underestimated the forces he would have to deal with. Maybe he is a President for the times if he can grow some balls, stand up and say I disagree. The pressure he and you are under is not insignificant but I hold a view that if you act locally and voice your concerns it will eventually be heard out loud. Work with the system you have as it has proved to be tested over time. The Government works still, for the people by the people and the people must be heard and can be through the systems that are in place. I urge you not to waste your time with the internet because as someone once said "religion(read Internet) is the opiate of the people" If you want change, the system is in place in your country to do it. Why do you think that the World wants to be you - could it be you have a sound constitution that has stood the ravages of time and revolution and still stands.; It is the base of Law and it is available as a right to all who live under it. While I'm at it, explain why I as an Australian can quote line and verse of "When in the course of human events.... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

You act only if your Government does the following...

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

You are, therefore, given a right that so much of the World craves. Use it without fear if you must. Take up arms as the last and final voice to be heard- not the first

[sunskyfan]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

and oat-bran pancakes with real maple syrup from Quebec.

I am aghast! Don't you realize how those Quebecers beat their trees to get them to produce even more and more syrup! Not to mention the crap they spread around them to encourage them to provide even more of those poor trees life blood so that you can have a little sweetness in the morning? It's people like you that force trees to grow in straight lines and continuously feel the pain of wounded bark ...

Okay. I am just kidding . But look at this in the PETA archives:

http://blog.peta.org/archives/2009/0...oes_a_mapl.php

I think I'll call it the Six Degrees of Tyranny. You are just to six people away from someone who think what you are doing at this very moment is wrong. People against using the letter T unite!

[Starving Steve]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

Boycotting maple syrup? This has to be a joke.

The people of Newfoundland need jobs doing whatever they do to make a living. That has to be understood by the members of PETA.

Yes, killing baby seals is awful, so maybe PETA might help the Govn't of Canada and the Province of Newfoundland to find work for the people of Newfoundland. Perhaps PETA could provide jobs for seal hunters in the new Hibernia Oil Field, offshore. Perhaps PETA might help to fund the re-training of seal hunters to be pipe-fitters or drillers, machinists, or whatever.

Atomic power, oil, and gas are the future. I hope PETA would agree with me on that, and I hope PETA would take action to really help the people of Newfoundland find work.

[Ghent12]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

I am aghast! Don't you realize how those Quebecers beat their trees to get them to produce even more and more syrup! Not to mention the crap they spread around them to encourage them to provide even more of those poor trees life blood so that you can have a little sweetness in the morning? It's people like you that force trees to grow in straight lines and continuously feel the pain of wounded bark ...

Okay. I am just kidding . But look at this in the PETA archives:

http://blog.peta.org/archives/2009/0...oes_a_mapl.php

I think I'll call it the Six Degrees of Tyranny. You are just to six people away from someone who think what you are doing at this very moment is wrong. People against using the letter T unite!

PETA actually stands for People for Euthanasia of The Animals. They are among the most evil groups on the planet if you hold any notion that animals should not be treated in a cruel fashion. The low-level guys are probably genuinely in favor of PETA's stated name, while the upper-level guys are enthusiastic about the extermination of all animals.

You should never, ever hold the views of PETA as anything more than unworthy of consideration.

[jtabeb]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

Yes, killing baby seals is awful, so maybe PETA might help the Govn't of Canada and the Province of Newfoundland to find work for the people of Newfoundland. Perhaps PETA could provide jobs for seal hunters in the new Hibernia Oil Field, offshore. Perhaps PETA might help to fund the re-training of seal hunters to be pipe-fitters or drillers, machinists, or whatever.

This is WHY I think you are SO SMART!

You understand that an undesireable profession cannot simply be eliminated through manate. You have to provide people the proper economic incentive to do so.

That's where the fringe environmental movment is so far off base. The ask that people willingly choose to lose so that the enviorment can win. The proper course of action is to provide incentives so that mother nature wins AND the individual wins IF they choose to change. You provide economic disincentives so that they have every reason to act in the win-win mode vs the win-lose mode.

Giving people a good (economic) reason to do the right thing (but NOT FORCING THEM TO DO SO) is an essential part of good governance IMHO. And it is one that has been sorely lacking since the birth of the FIRE economy.

My Hat's off to you Steve, EXCELLENT point!

[Godozo]

Re: Americans taking up arms against their government

I've always believed that a good left-wing liberal should be both well-armed and a good shot, though few who describe themselves that way seem to agree with me.

Their problem is that they take an obvious thought (one should be able to walk around freely without fear) and ignore what necessarily follows (walking without fear requires the ability to defend one's self, amongst other things). I call it The Gandhi Illusion, as he was using only what he had within his grasp (the passivity of the populace).

--from a liberal who now believes what you believe, after a long period of passivity and self-preservation (I now think it's better to deal with the demons directly, and armed. Yes, even the suicidal ones...) :p