Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

[GRG55]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

You must be joking...[read on]



ggirod has it right.

It seems to have escaped the notice of all you Japan fans that Toyota's next generation Prius is going to be equipped with a 1.8 litre gasoline engine - that's a 300 cc bigger than my first car [which was also a four passenger sedan] and also 300 cc bigger than the current Prius engine. It would appear that it takes a lot of horsepower to move that battery pack around.

GM avoids the use of the term "hybrid" when referring to the Volt, preferring to call it an electric vehicle with a "range extender engine" [a 1.4 litre gasoline engine that drives a generator to charge the battery pack, unlike the Prius engine which supplies direct mechanical drive].

It remains to be seen if the Volt will "save" GM, or prove to be a 21st century version of the ill-fated J-car - which was also conceived under "crisis" circumstances.

Toyota is anticipating worldwide demand of 400,000 units of the Prius annually. I couldn't help but note that Toyota also announced worldwide sales of 3.56 million units in the first half of 2009; down 26% y-o-y. If we assume that Toyota sales remain at this depressed level, and Prius sales expand as forecast, the Prius will still make up less than 6% of Toyota's units sold.

There are stories circulating that GM intends to use the Volt technology in a cross-over SUV - but in order to maintain load carrying and tow capabilities comparable to its conventionally powered SUVs, GM plans to use a 3.5 litre 6-cyl as the range extender engine. What next? A diesel-electric locomotive .

My reaction to all this continues to be "What's the point?" EJ was right when he posted some time back that these things aren't real economy cars, and they aren't that ecologically friendly either. They're actually for people of means that want to be seen to be making an eco-statement to their neighbours and friends.

Seems like a strange time to be leaving, just when the Volt is about to go into the production phase.

However, Weber is a German national so perhaps there's some family and/or lifestyle related considerations factored into this decision...

GM’s Chevy Volt Chief Weber Leaving for Leadership Post at Opel

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Co.’s Chevrolet Volt chief Frank Weber is leaving the automaker Dec. 1 to take a senior leadership post with Opel, where he previously developed sedans for the German brand GM is trying to sell.

Weber, 43, has been the global vehicle line executive and chief vehicle engineer for GM’s electric vehicle development program since March 2007...

...Weber said he couldn’t share his exact title at Opel, because the brand’s future isn’t settled. His role will involve keeping global product development intact even as GM’s stake in the brand shifts to a minority interest...

...GM plans to begin selling the Volt in November 2010. GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz has said the car may have a sticker price of about $40,000.

[GRG55]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/242395/

Chevy Cruze with a 1.4 turbo engine makes sense, this doesn't!
Mike

Wonder if the US government will extend the $8000 subsidy for the Volt to this variation...seems like just the ticket for environmentally-inclined bankers to park in the driveway...

GM board approves plug-in Cadillac hybrid: sources

Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:21pm EST

DETROIT (Reuters) - The board of General Motors Co has approved a plan to produce a plug-in hybrid for the luxury Cadillac brand that will adapt technology developed for the upcoming Chevrolet Volt, according to people briefed on the decision.

The battery-powered Cadillac will be based on the Converj concept GM showed off in January and would become the second extended-range plug-in vehicle in GM's line-up after the Volt, which is set to launch at the end of 2010.

GM's 13-member board approved production of the new Cadillac at a regular meeting last week in Detroit...

[BK]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE GM BOD - $200K BOD Jobs

Well if this group is OKing the new car - it must be a great idea. Allowing the BOD to choose which Models to build - is this standard practice for Car Companies? Has any one ever seen a Commitee make a good recommendation on a new product????

The work on the BOD of GM is so hard and dangerous that they are paid $200,000 per year and get a company car.

Patricia Russo did a phenomenal job with Lucent -
Lots of Telecom experience on the BOD - Carol Stephenson and Patricia Russo from Lucent, Edward Whitacre from AT&T.
I'd better place my bets on what will happen when GM fails.

Board of Directors for GM:
Carol Stephenson, dean of Ivey School of Business at University of
Western Ontario, and has been a member of the GM Canada Advisory Board
Daniel Akerson, managing director, The Carlyle Group
David Bonderman, co-founding partner, TPG
Robert Krebs, retired chairman and chief executive officer, Burlington
Northern Santa Fe
-- Patricia Russo, former chief executive officer, Alcatel-Lucent
Chairman of the Board Edward E. Whitacre Jr.-ormer chairman and CEO
of AT&T Inc.

Stephen Girsky-veteran auto industry analyst as its board nominee last month.
Erroll Davis, Jr., chancellor, University Systems ofGeorgia;
Fritz Henderson, president and CEO, GM Company;
Neville Isdell, retired chairman and CEO, The Coca-Cola Company;
Kent Kresa, chairman emeritus, Northrop Grumman Corporation;
Philip Laskawy, retired chairman and CEO, Ernst & Young LLP;
Kathryn Marinello, chairman and CEO, Ceridian Corp.

[metalman]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE GM BOD - $200K BOD Jobs

Well if this group is OKing the new car - it must be a great idea. Allowing the BOD to choose which Models to build - is this standard practice for Car Companies? Has any one ever seen a Commitee make a good recommendation on a new product????

The work on the BOD of GM is so hard and dangerous that they are paid $200,000 per year and get a company car.

Patricia Russo did a phenomenal job with Lucent -
Lots of Telecom experience on the BOD - Carol Stephenson and Patricia Russo from Lucent, Edward Whitacre from AT&T.
I'd better place my bets on what will happen when GM fails.

Board of Directors for GM:
Carol Stephenson, dean of Ivey School of Business at University of
Western Ontario, and has been a member of the GM Canada Advisory Board
Daniel Akerson, managing director, The Carlyle Group
David Bonderman, co-founding partner, TPG
Robert Krebs, retired chairman and chief executive officer, Burlington
Northern Santa Fe
-- Patricia Russo, former chief executive officer, Alcatel-Lucent
Chairman of the Board Edward E. Whitacre Jr.-ormer chairman and CEO
of AT&T Inc.

Stephen Girsky-veteran auto industry analyst as its board nominee last month.
Erroll Davis, Jr., chancellor, University Systems ofGeorgia;
Fritz Henderson, president and CEO, GM Company;
Neville Isdell, retired chairman and CEO, The Coca-Cola Company;
Kent Kresa, chairman emeritus, Northrop Grumman Corporation;
Philip Laskawy, retired chairman and CEO, Ernst & Young LLP;
Kathryn Marinello, chairman and CEO, Ceridian Corp.

The Rise and Decline of Auto Manufacturing

While the U.S. automotive industry is going through one of its more challenging eras in history and
the foreign nameplate auto manufacturers in the U.S. appear to be booming, I am reminded of some
similar events in history that we should be aware of: the rise and decline of the British automotive
industry. Following World War II (the very early 1950s), the British automotive industry was the
second largest in the world and was the largest exporter of automobiles and commercial vehicles.
They exported more than the United States. They were second only to the U.S. in auto
manufacturing output. They out-produced any other country in Europe and any other industrialized
country, save the U.S. Then by the late 1960s, they began their abrupt decline followed by
“nationalization” in 1975. Finally in April 2005, the last of the big British-owned auto plants MG
Rover closed its doors, idling some 6,000 auto workers and severely undercutting another 20,000
supplier employees in the midlands of England. This sad event was punctuated with union leaders
blaming mismanagement and the lack of government support. Regardless, the doors closed.

The rise and decline of the British automotive industry and the woes of the “big three” U.S. auto
manufacturers should provide some “lessons learned” for all U.S. manufacturers:
• Market forces: Paying attention to the customers and the markets is as important as paying
attention to the competition.
• Business strategy: Manufacturing competitiveness demands that from time to time we
fundamentally re-think how we perform work (design, build, work methods, marketing,
sales…).
• Measures of success: Productivity, efficiency, and quality are important but are only part of
a complex formula for business success (sales revenue – cost = profit).
• Hidden capacity: Capital asset utilization, tapping the “hidden capacity” in the plant’s
critical processes must be a high priority (Focus: Overall Equipment Effectiveness, MTBF,
MTTR).
• Equipment reliability: Poorly maintained and unreliable equipment can undermine almost
all other improvement initiatives in a capital intensive business (higher costs, delayed
shipments, interrupted flow).
• Labor and management: Labor/management communications across and throughout the
organization must be open, honest, continuous, and focused on business success, not
individual or organizational agendas (“We’re going to win or lose together”).
• Work methods: Restrictive work practices, outdated work rules and past practice can stifle
creativity, innovation, and lead to significant and irreversible losses (“If you always do what
you’ve always done, then you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”).
• Standardized work: Consistent work procedures provide the basis for training and
qualifying the workforce and drive out human variation shift-to-shift and crew-to-crew
(drives out variation, improves efficiency, reduces errors, lowers cost…).

Historically, the auto industry has set the stage for manufacturing strategies across many other nonauto
businesses. History repeats itself, and history often tells us why things are the way they are
today. Status quo, complacency, and ignorance can kill a once-thriving business. We can and we
should learn from history to avoid common pitfalls that have hurt businesses and their workforce.
Successful businesses and workforces help communities, and nations thrive. Let’s do our part in our
businesses, plants, departments, and crews to remain competitive and prosperous.

The Rise and Decline of Auto Manufacturing
Robert M. Williamson
Strategic Work Systems, Inc.

[MulaMan]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Toyota Prius Hybrid Sales will hit 100,000 cars in 2009.

GM Hybrid Sales will hit 0.

Case Closed.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...yota-says.html

[GRG55]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Toyota Prius Hybrid Sales will hit 100,000 cars in 2009.

GM Hybrid Sales will hit 0.

Case Closed.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...yota-says.html

You haven't actually made a case for anything in this post.

The article that you linked states that Toyota "hopes" to sell as many Priuses in 2010 as it did in 2007...180,000 units.

Let's hope that GM does much better than that with the Volt, because 180,000 units of anything is basically a waste of time for a mass market car manufacturer [Toyota sold 9.37 million cars in 2007, so the Prius represented less than 2% of its volume].

And by the way, all the talk of the Japanese car makers taking over the world is faintly reminiscent of all the talk in the mid 1980's about how Japan itself was going to take over the world...and we all know how well that turned out.

[MulaMan]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Toyota has sold over 2 million hybrids worldwide.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/04...les-worldwide/

GM does not even report the number of hybrid sales...huh?...

...oh I forgot GM is the American Government...you know....free market capitalism...LOL.

Toyota 2010 - Plug in hybrid
Toyota 2012 - 2 seater electric
Toyota 2015 - Hydrogen

Note: Toyota has already built more hydrogen prototypes then GM's 30 electric Volts.

Toyota is already rolling out plug-in hybrids this year.

Toyota Advanced Fuel Hybrid Achieves 431 mpg on a tank of hydrogen gas.

“Toyota’s hydrogen fuel cell technology has advanced rapidly over the last two years,” said Irv Miller, TMS group vice president, environmental and public affairs. “In 2015, our plan is to bring to market a reliable and durable fuel cell vehicle with exceptional fuel economy and zero emissions, at an affordable price.”

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...rid-97782.aspx

Go ahead and invest in GM. I am long Honda and Toyota. LOL.

[flintlock]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

You haven't actually made a case for anything in this post.

The article that you linked states that Toyota "hopes" to sell as many Priuses in 2010 as it did in 2007...180,000 units.

Let's hope that GM does much better than that with the Volt, because 180,000 units of anything is basically a waste of time for a mass market car manufacturer [Toyota sold 9.37 million cars in 2007, so the Prius represented less than 2% of its volume].

And by the way, all the talk of the Japanese car makers taking over the world is faintly reminiscent of all the talk in the mid 1980's about how Japan itself was going to take over the world...and we all know how well that turned out.

Like you read my mind.

[GRG55]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Toyota has sold over 2 million hybrids worldwide.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/04...les-worldwide/

GM does not even report the number of hybrid sales...huh?...

...oh I forgot GM is the American Government...you know....free market capitalism...LOL.

Toyota 2010 - Plug in hybrid
Toyota 2012 - 2 seater electric
Toyota 2015 - Hydrogen

Note: Toyota has already built more hydrogen prototypes then GM's 30 electric Volts.

Toyota is already rolling out plug-in hybrids this year.

Toyota Advanced Fuel Hybrid Achieves 431 mpg on a tank of hydrogen gas.

“Toyota’s hydrogen fuel cell technology has advanced rapidly over the last two years,” said Irv Miller, TMS group vice president, environmental and public affairs. “In 2015, our plan is to bring to market a reliable and durable fuel cell vehicle with exceptional fuel economy and zero emissions, at an affordable price.”

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...rid-97782.aspx

Go ahead and invest in GM. I am long Honda and Toyota. LOL.

I genuinely hope you do well with your Honda and Toyota positions.

But I hope GM does even better. You see GM is more than the American government. Unfortunately I am an involuntary shareholder courtesy of my idiot Canadian Federal Government...:p

[GRG55]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

...ggirod has it right.

It seems to have escaped the notice of all you Japan fans that Toyota's next generation Prius is going to be equipped with a 1.8 litre gasoline engine - that's a 300 cc bigger than my first car [which was also a four passenger sedan] and also 300 cc bigger than the current Prius engine. It would appear that it takes a lot of horsepower to move that battery pack around.

GM avoids the use of the term "hybrid" when referring to the Volt, preferring to call it an electric vehicle with a "range extender engine" [a 1.4 litre gasoline engine that drives a generator to charge the battery pack, unlike the Prius engine which supplies direct mechanical drive].

It remains to be seen if the Volt will "save" GM, or prove to be a 21st century version of the ill-fated J-car - which was also conceived under "crisis" circumstances.

Toyota is anticipating worldwide demand of 400,000 units of the Prius annually. I couldn't help but note that Toyota also announced worldwide sales of 3.56 million units in the first half of 2009; down 26% y-o-y. If we assume that Toyota sales remain at this depressed level, and Prius sales expand as forecast, the Prius will still make up less than 6% of Toyota's units sold.

There are stories circulating that GM intends to use the Volt technology in a cross-over SUV - but in order to maintain load carrying and tow capabilities comparable to its conventionally powered SUVs, GM plans to use a 3.5 litre 6-cyl as the range extender engine. What next? A diesel-electric locomotive?

My reaction to all this continues to be "What's the point?" EJ was right when he posted some time back that these things aren't real economy cars, and they aren't that ecologically friendly either. They're actually for people of means that want to be seen to be making an eco-statement to their neighbours and friends.

First the Corvair, then the Vega, the Chevette, the "J-car"...now the Volt?

General Motors doesn't have a good track record when it strays very far from its mainstream dominant manufacturing capabilities...unique configurations [such as the air-cooled, rear engined Corvair, or the transverse, front-drive J-car] or attempts to pioneer entirely new manufacturing approaches [such as the "Reynolds-wrap" aluminum block engine in the Vega] almost always seem to come to grief. Perhaps the "plastic-fantastic" Chevrolet Corvette is the exception?

At these prices it's going to take a lot of government subsidies to create that giant "capacitor" that the wind power aficionados covet.

Frankly the $7,500 tax credit looks like another subsidy for rich folks...

GM Volt's price induces some sticker shock


By Peter Whoriskey
Wednesday, July 28, 2010


The long-anticipated Chevrolet Volt, General Motors' electric car, will cost $41,000, the company announced Tuesday, leaving consumers to decide whether its environmental appeal is worth a price far above that of similarly sized conventional autos...

...Nissan, the only other major manufacturer expected to bring such a vehicle to market this year, said the Leaf will cost $32,780.

GM and Nissan are relying on a $7,500 federal tax credit for buyers of electric vehicles to offset some of the added cost...

[Chomsky]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Hey I owned a Corvair -- the second-gen version that addressed the "unsafe at any speed" problems of the first. Fun car. Loud though.

[Debt-freeTICer]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

I put 450,000 miles on a 1981 Chevette with no air or cruise. About 29 miles per gallon. My 1994 Buick LaSabre gets 29 miles per gallon, with all the amenities.

[cjppjc]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Some of the issues with electric cars: 1.) battery weight negates the savings in fuel; 2.) cost of a re-charge; 3.) availability of a re-charge; 4.) what battery-pack can re-charge when it's -40F in Winnipeg? 5.) peeing on yourself waiting thirty minutes or more for a re-charge; 6.) where is the spare electricity in the grid for a re-charge? 7.) battery life and battery cost; 8.) outrageous initial cost for an electric car; 9.) depreciation and maintenance unknowns; 10.) limited range of an electric car, especially in cold weather.

I just switched my home over to 1.7 watt per hour bead lights, so the switch was from so-called "energy-efficient" florescent lights to bead-lights, both inside and out. Still, my solar lights outside the house do NOT even harvest enough sunlight on a clear day in July to run my 1.7 watt per hour bead-lights for a short night in Canada. So, I keep learning the same lesson, over and over again: "Don't believe anything the pot-head environmentalists tell you about anything."

Fossil fuels are here to stay, apparently for another sixty years at least. We don't have any alternative for maintaining our standard of living, except to increase our use of atomic energy, hydro-electricity, and natural gas to reduce the cost of electricity.

Ethanol is not an alternative, especially not at its current cost per litre as a fuel. That leaves no alternative except to drill, and to up-grade heavy oil. Those are the facts of life, the facts that Obama should be discussing now with the American people.

I had previously thought about your first four. The fifth had never entered my mind. Thanks. If electric cars take off, will Depends be a good investment play?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

Some of the issues with electric cars: 1.) battery weight negates the savings in fuel; 2.) cost of a re-charge; 3.) availability of a re-charge; 4.) what battery-pack can re-charge when it's -40F in Winnipeg? 5.) peeing on yourself waiting thirty minutes or more for a re-charge; 6.) where is the spare electricity in the grid for a re-charge? 7.) battery life and battery cost; 8.) outrageous initial cost for an electric car; 9.) depreciation and maintenance unknowns; 10.) limited range of an electric car, especially in cold weather.

I just switched my home over to 1.7 watt per hour bead lights, so the switch was from so-called "energy-efficient" florescent lights to bead-lights, both inside and out. Still, my solar lights outside the house do NOT even harvest enough sunlight on a clear day in July to run my 1.7 watt per hour bead-lights for a short night in Canada. So, I keep learning the same lesson, over and over again: "Don't believe anything the pot-head environmentalists tell you about anything."

Fossil fuels are here to stay, apparently for another sixty years at least. We don't have any alternative for maintaining our standard of living, except to increase our use of atomic energy, hydro-electricity, and natural gas to reduce the cost of electricity.

Ethanol is not an alternative, especially not at its current cost per litre as a fuel. That leaves no alternative except to drill, and to up-grade heavy oil. Those are the facts of life, the facts that Obama should be discussing now with the American people.

[reggie]

Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!

I wish they'd just bring back my 1981 Honda Civic with the Aluminum head - I got around 50MPG City & around 60MPG on the HWY (and that was doing 75MPH). I think that car only cost me $6K at the time.