Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

[LargoWinch]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Why is this so hard to understand?

No eight year olds losing fingers in manufacturing plants, no 12 year olds with Black Lung, no company stores in company towns that accept only company scrip - no unions.

No rivers on fire, no soot-covered downtowns, no Love Canals - no EPA.

No rotten meat, no cat guts sold as beef steak - no FDA.

No tax money to oligarchs making more in bonuses during a financial crisis than their companies made in profits - no revolutions.

All the things Conservatives love to hate result from the times when the world was run as they wanted it to be. Times when the average person was being FUCKED. The parts of government they don't like were a reaction to their own (mostly wealthy business) excesses.

Don't want bigger government, resurgent unions, new regulatory institutions and health care reform? Stop screwing people. It's really not very complicated.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

people don't walk away from credit card debt except via bankruptcy. if you wish to absolve yourself of your debts in similar fashion, the law provides such an avenue. what you celebrate with your smiley [""] is theft of service. dance around it if you wish. you hope that the hospital's collection procedures are inadequate, i.e. that you can "get away with something." i hope the opposite. you wish to succeed in a form of parasitism. if you and similar others succeed, you just drive up costs for those who pay their bills.

Not much mention of bankruptcy here.

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...t=credit+cards

You also really didn't answer my questions. Mortgages, credit cards, implied promises. Only doctors and hospitals should be exempt from people breaking their promises doctor?

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Not much mention of bankruptcy here.

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...t=credit+cards

You also really didn't answer my questions. Mortgages, credit cards, implied promises. Only doctors and hospitals should be exempt from people breaking their promises doctor?

no, i just believe that there's a value in being a society ruled by laws. don't like the laws, vote to change them. don't like a contract, don't sign it. there is nothing "implied" about my mortgage. i just refinanced and i can tell you that there were many pages spelling out my responsibilities and the rights of the lender. there is nothing "implied" about my credit card agreements. i signed my name, i have rights, the creditor has rights. i'm not saying "don't stiff doctors." i'm saying "don't stiff ANYONE." i don't stiff my plumber, my pest-control guy, my roofer. [all tradesmen i recently paid for their services.] do you? gotten your septic tank pumped and stiffed the guy who did it? ha-ha= brilliant financial move. aren't you smart!

[flintlock]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

$700 for an emergency room visit sounds cheap to me. They stitched my kid's forehead up in Pensacola FL and it was $1500.

Oh, and my BS insurance at the time ( 10 years ago) denied the claim. Said it was out of network! A 1 year old toddler falls and cuts his forehead open to the bone on a glass table and you are supposed to what, shop for emergency rooms? :eek: I was on vacation.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

no, i just believe that there's a value in being a society ruled by laws. don't like the laws, vote to change them. don't like a contract, don't sign it. there is nothing "implied" about my mortgage. i just refinanced and i can tell you that there were many pages spelling out my responsibilities and the rights of the lender. there is nothing "implied" about my credit card agreements. i signed my name, i have rights, the creditor has rights. i'm not saying "don't stiff doctors." i'm saying "don't stiff ANYONE." i don't stiff my plumber, my pest-control guy, my roofer. [all tradesmen i recently paid for their services.] do you?

There is a value not in a society ruled by laws, but rather in a society ruled by people who keep their word. Laws like subjective morality are constantly changing. People with honor don't change. I don't stiff tradesman. I don't stiff anyone. Not even doctors or hospitals I have been wanting to have this discussion regarding what it means to walk out on your debt. You were the one who responded. I wonder how the others who post and say it's okay to walk away, felt when they read our exchange. Sorry if I upset you.

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

There is a value not in a society ruled by laws, but rather in a society ruled by people who keep their word. Laws like subjective morality are constantly changing. People with honor don't change. I don't stiff tradesman. I don't stiff anyone. Not even doctors or hospitals I have been wanting to have this discussion regarding what it means to walk out on your debt. You were the one who responded. I wonder how the others who post and say it's okay to walk away, felt when they read our exchange. Sorry if I upset you.

i'm really glad to read this post. i don't stiff anyone either.

otoh, i don't feel offended by people walking on their underwater mortgages, both because it is within the terms of the contractual agreement, and because i think the loans' underwriters and lenders bear a lot of responsibility for the situation. i am somewhat offended by people declaring bankruptcy because of their credit card debt- i had a patient who ran up over a $100k of credit card debt and then went bankrupt. it bothered me. part of it was that i think this guy knew full well that he would never pay off his debt when he took it on.

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

i wanted to add that part of what upset me about your original post was that i'd appreciated other contributions of yours in the past. you were someone i respected. so that faux-scam post really bothered me even more than it would have otherwise.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

i'm really glad to read this post. i don't stiff anyone either.

otoh, i don't feel offended by people walking on their underwater mortgages, both because it is within the terms of the contractual agreement, and because i think the loans' underwriters and lenders bear a lot of responsibility for the situation. i am somewhat offended by people declaring bankruptcy because of their credit card debt- i had a patient who ran up over a $100k of credit card debt and then went bankrupt. it bothered me. part of it was that i think this guy knew full well that he would never pay off his debt when he took it on.

I'm sure he did. Most bankruptcy lawers back in the day would tell their clients to run up the cards and "then we'll file next month."

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

i wanted to add that part of what upset me about your original post was that i'd appreciated other contributions of yours in the past. you were someone i respected. so that faux-scam post really bothered me even more than it would have otherwise.

Thank you very much. Ditto.

[Scot]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

I had to go to an emergency room. $700 to $1k just for getting foot in door.

Whoops that did not come out quite right. $700 to $1k for admittance.

an ounce of gold for a few stitches? Something is very wrong here.

Consider it a tax paid to subsidize the care given to those that don't pay for their own care.

Socialized medicine or not. The money has to come from somewhere.

[Munger]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Why is this so hard to understand?

No eight year olds losing fingers in manufacturing plants, no 12 year olds with Black Lung, no company stores in company towns that accept only company scrip - no unions.

No rivers on fire, no soot-covered downtowns, no Love Canals - no EPA.

No rotten meat, no cat guts sold as beef steak - no FDA.

No tax money to oligarchs making more in bonuses during a financial crisis than their companies made in profits - no revolutions.

All the things Conservatives love to hate result from the times when the world was run as they wanted it to be. Times when the average person was being FUCKED. The parts of government they don't like were a reaction to their own (mostly wealthy business) excesses.

Don't want bigger government, resurgent unions, new regulatory institutions and health care reform? Stop screwing people. It's really not very complicated.

But ... but .... but .... but .... THE FREE MARKET!!

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Just compare the COSTS of veterinary medicine with the COSTS of equivalent "people" medicine. Like 1/20th the cost. The differential is a little about greater care for people, but mostly about higher regulatory burdens on human medicine.

Perhaps. And perhaps it's about true market price flexibility. A farmer with a $50 hog won't buy an $80 course of antibiotics, and the pharmaceutical business won't sell at a loss. They take a low price but make a buck or two. When your little child gets sick, they know you can and will pay much more. Drugs for animals are priced at dispassionate market levels, while the price negotiations for human drugs start with "your money or your life".

[Godozo]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Gee, that must be why medicaid and medicare are in such good shape. I wonder if they will run national health insurance as good as Amtrack?

Amtrak's run well. Considering it's chronically underfunded, at the mercy of a network of private railroads who'd rather run the AmTrains at high speed off a cliff, and constantly needing to spend precious money to prove their worth even when they're booking over capacity; they're run VERY well.

[Roughneck]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

When was the last time amtrack turned a profit? Anyway, why does everything have to be from one extreme to another. Yes the government and labor laws etc are great things to have. But does that mean we want the government to run the entire health care system? We do need a system to provide insurance to people who lose their jobs or make too much money to qualify for medicaid but not enough to buy insurance. But I'm sure we can do this without letting the government run healthcare for everyone. Having insurance companies in the form of user owned mutuals or forming group pools to offer insurance to those without would be a good alternative. I'm just not sure which option is worse greedy insurance companies or a corrrupt,inept government running healthcare like the post office.

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

this is a good article linked off of nakedcapitalism today.
http://tauntermedia.com/2009/07/28/unconscionable-math/

take home: " it isn't .5% it is more like 50% that are denied coverage.